Neutral Safety Switch '06 TJ - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 21 Old 06-15-2019, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
pablodel
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Won't start (old topic Neutral Safety Switch '06 TJ)

Been having some intermittent start issues where engine will not turn over at all, and after a few tries, it starts normal. I get the best results when I put it in neutral, but I still need to wiggle the shifter (automatic) a couple of times before it starts. I already changed the starter (before I knew about neutral start), and that wasn't it. Pretty sure it's the neutral safety switch, so I bought a Duralast part number SU3147 from AutoZone, but for the life of me I can't find it! I've looked everywhere online and can't find the NSS that I have. I'm including pics of the new part. If anyone can let me where it is located, and if this job is suitable for a Youtube mechanic, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

https://i1060.photobucket.com/albums...psdnysi5y3.jpg

https://i1060.photobucket.com/albums...psc1it3ufm.jpg


Last edited by pablodel; 06-26-2019 at 09:08 PM. Reason: Update topic because not the NSS
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post #2 of 21 Old 06-15-2019, 02:03 PM
Rubi4MyMrs
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Here it is & you are not going to like it. From the FSM.

The Transmission Range Sensor (TRS) (2) (Fig.
252) is mounted to the top of the valve body inside
the transmission and can only be serviced by removing
the valve body assembly. The electrical connector
extends through the transmission case.
The Transmission Range Sensor (TRS) has four
switch contacts that monitor shift lever position and
send the information to the PCM.


I would recommend testing yours to see if it is really bad before replacing it. I know it is intermittent which makes it tough to check but they rarely seem to go bad. Often the shifter cable is slightly out of adjustment which is why moving the shifter slightly from neutral (to find the sweet spot) will allow starting.

Also from the FSM

SHIFT MECHANISM
DESCRIPTION
The shift mechanism is cable operated and provides
six shift positions. The shift indicator is located
on the console next to the gear shift. The shift positions
are:
≤ Park (P)
≤ Reverse (R)
≤ Neutral (N)
≤ Drive (D)
≤ Manual Second (2)
≤ Manual Low (1)
OPERATION
Manual low (1) range provides first gear only. Over
run braking is also provided in this range. Manual
second (2) range provides first and second gear only.
Drive range provides first, second, and third gear
ranges.
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING - SHIFT MECHANISM
(1) The floor shifter lever and gate positions
should be in alignment with all transmission PARK,
NEUTRAL, and gear detent positions.
(2) Engine starts must be possible with floor shift
lever in PARK or NEUTRAL gate positions only.
Engine starts must not be possible in any other gear
position.
(3) With floor shift lever handle push-button not
depressed and lever in:
(a) PARK position - Apply forward force on center
of handle and remove pressure. Engine starts
must be possible.
(b) PARK position - Apply rearward force on center
of handle and remove pressure. Engine starts
must be possible.
(c) NEUTRAL position - Normal position. Engine
starts must be possible.
(d) NEUTRAL position - Engine running and
brakes applied, apply forward force on center of
shift handle. Transmission shall not be able to shift
from NEUTRAL to REVERSE.
ADJUSTMENTS - SHIFT MECHANISM
Check adjustment by starting the engine in PARK
and NEUTRAL. Adjustment is CORRECT if the
engine starts only in these positions. Adjustment is
INCORRECT if the engine starts in one but not both
positions. If the engine starts in any position other
than PARK or NEUTRAL, or if the engine will not
start at all, the TRS may be faulty.
Gearshift Adjustment Procedure
(1) Shift transmission into PARK.
(2) Remove floor console as necessary for access to
the shift cable adjustment. (Refer to 23 - BODY/INTERIOR/
FLOOR CONSOLE - REMOVAL)
(3) Loosen the shift cable adjustment nut.
(4) Raise vehicle.
(5) Unsnap cable eyelet from transmission shift
lever.
(6) Verify transmission shift lever is in PARK
detent by moving lever fully rearward. Last rearward
detent is PARK position.
(7) Verify positive engagement of transmission
park lock by attempting to rotate propeller shaft.
Shaft will not rotate when park lock is engaged.
(8) Snap cable eyelet onto transmission shift lever.
(9) Lower vehicle
(10) Tighten the shift cable adjustment screw to 12
N∑m (105 in.lbs.).
(11) Verify correct operation.
(12) Install any floor console components removed
for access. (Refer to 23 - BODY/INTERIOR/FLOOR
CONSOLE - INSTALLATION)
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post #3 of 21 Old 06-16-2019, 12:05 PM
mukluk
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The tack on to the above, the shift cable end/bushing is known to sometimes wear out or crack.
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/g...g-help-761603/
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/a...-stuck-606494/
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/a...shing-4311569/
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post #4 of 21 Old 06-16-2019, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
pablodel
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So I think adjusting the shift mechanism probably goes beyond my technical ability. However, the shift cable did break a couple of years ago, and I fixed it with the chopstick trick. It's been working fine for a couple of years, but is it possible that chopstick is causing some kind of issue now? Perhaps I just need to install that shift cable to fix this?
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post #5 of 21 Old 06-23-2019, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Update. I went out and did some more testing on the Jeep as instructed above, and it started working. Worked OK for about a week, then it started having the same issue again. The problem is really strange. I put the car in drive just to see if if would start (indicating bad NSS), and it does nothing at all. This is different from when it does not start in park or neutral. There is a noise coming from under the hood, which I think might be the start relay. Perhaps there's another hint here. My wife noticed the radio is intermittently turning off while shes driving it, then back on again after a couple of seconds. I've also had it once where the Jeep would not start, and after holding the ignition down for about 3 seconds it started, and the radio clock is reset on the radio as if it lost power. Could I be looking at some electrical/wiring issues? Could there be some kind of water damage from the few times we accidentally left it in the rain with the top down? Thanks!
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post #6 of 21 Old 06-23-2019, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
I've also had it once where the Jeep would not start, and after holding the ignition down for about 3 seconds it started, and the radio clock is reset on the radio as if it lost power.
This sounds like a failing battery or bad cables/connections to me.
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post #7 of 21 Old 06-24-2019, 07:36 AM Thread Starter
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It actually has a new battery. But that's funny too. I had a Duralast Gold that was only a year and a half old when this first started happening. I took it to AutoZone and they ran a battery test and concluded the battery was bad and gave me a new one. Is it possible whatever is wrong could be adversely affecting the battery (or even throwing false positives on the battery tester)? If it is wiring, where would I even start? Thanks!
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post #8 of 21 Old 06-24-2019, 11:19 AM
Rubi4MyMrs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pablodel View Post
If it is wiring, where would I even start? Thanks!

There are several things it might be.



To begin:



When it is not starting, without turning the key off, leave the key in the on position & try the radio & also the turn signals. Do they work?
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post #9 of 21 Old 06-25-2019, 05:48 AM Thread Starter
pablodel
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Tried out when not starting, and both radio and turn signals work. I went ahead and grabbed a video. It shows the weird clicking sound it makes, and shows the radio cut off when I turn the ignition, then the last part shows something new and that is a really ugly clicking sound. Hope this helps with the troubleshooting! Two clips, one MP4 and one MOV for compatibility:
MOV:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ht1...ew?usp=sharing
Same clip, MP4:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fTF...ew?usp=sharing

BTW, check engine light in video is crank position sensor. I changed it, but still get light. Going to try camshaft position sensor next. Don't think this is related as this light has been on for months. Also, what are the odds I got another defective battery or something is damaging the batteries (bad wiring or something)?

Last edited by pablodel; 06-25-2019 at 05:52 AM. Reason: Needed to add comment for clarification.
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post #10 of 21 Old 06-25-2019, 11:01 AM
Rubi4MyMrs
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That is not from a bad neutral switch. If it was bad, nothing would happen when you turn the key. No clicking, no dimming lights.

It sounds like the first clicking is the starter solenoid & the dimming lights/radio dropping out acts like a very weak battery, high resistance in the battery cables (dirty terminals or corrosion inside the cables) or there is a heavy load on the battery pulling the voltage very low, usually that would be a bad starter or a seized engine in an extreme case.

The later, rapid clicking sounds like the starter solenoid. When there is not enough battery power (amps) to hold the solenoid in (the louder, single click you first heard) it will pull in & drop out rapidly giving a vibrating sound. That is very symptomatic of a weak battery or bad cables. The first try has enough battery to engage & hold the solenoid but not enough to turn the engine & repeated tries lowers the voltage (& amps) below the threshold required by the solenoid to stay engaged. As noted above, either a weak battery or resistance in the cables could cause this. And bad cables can also affect the proper charging from the alternator. If so the battery may need charging.

I would try jumping the battery if you can. If that gives you the same results, knowing you have replaced both the starter & battery I would check the cables. Be sure to check the main one going to the starter & the one going to the PDC (fuse/relay box in front of the battery) as well as the ground cable.

If all are good have the battery tested.
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post #11 of 21 Old 06-25-2019, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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Perfect! Man, I should have started my post with a video For bad cables, should I be looking for frayed looking cables? Or rust? Not even sure what looks like normal wear, and what constitutes bad. I do have a voltmeter, can I check resistance maybe? Knowing I had a bad battery before, I may just yank the battery and take it over to AutoZone to test it. It would really be a drag if it's another bad battery and I wasted all this time and money (changing starter) for nothing. Not to mention perfect Jeep weather days missed!!! Thanks, I'll update soon!
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post #12 of 21 Old 06-25-2019, 11:51 AM
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I would definitely have it checked & charged or replaced if needed. It’s always good to start with a good, fully charged battery.

For the cables, yes a resistance check is a good place to start along with shiny clean cable ends. After that high resistance can come from corrosion in the copper strands inside the cable's plastic coating. Not always visible but usually right where the cable ends are crimped to the copper. Don’t miss the short one going to the PDC & check the bolt at the PDC too.
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post #13 of 21 Old 06-25-2019, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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No dice. Well, I suppose if I had dice they would be snake eyes. AutoZone was good enough to give me a new battery even though the tester said the other one was good. I cleaned the terminals so they look new and installed the new battery. It still did not start. Using my analog meter, the voltage looks closer to 11.75 than 12. I put my battery charger on it, and it is charging now. But I don't have a lot of confidence this will work.

Is there any chance this is caused by bad camshaft position sensor? Like I said, the check engine light says crank position sensor, and I already replaced that. Also, all the cables look pretty good to me, but the one to the starter (new) may be a little rusty.
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post #14 of 21 Old 06-25-2019, 08:12 PM
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While there are some types of damage that can be easily seen and evaluated just by looking at the cables, there are also issues that cannot be identified just by appearance. Grab your volt meter and start checking for voltage drops at each battery cable connection. If your meter also can measure resistance (most modern ones do), disconnect the cables from the battery posts and measure the resistance from one end of each cable to the opposite end -- you should have very nearly zero ohms for a reading.
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...g-voltage-drop

A couple extra notes: no, your cam sensor can't cause the starter to not work; you should be seeing 12.6 volts across the battery terminals for a fully charged 12v battery, not just 12 and definitely not 11.75 volts, and you should also see very close to the voltage value across the battery terminals at your cable connections to the starter and the PDC.
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post #15 of 21 Old 06-25-2019, 11:12 PM
Jimwfl
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Check the Ignition switch. My Jeep would turn over and not start, then wouldn't turn over, then start fine, then blinkers & radio wouldn't work, yada yada... And it was all because of the Ignition switch. I got real lucky and figured it out by wiggling my keys and noticed different patterns... Mine had corrosion, so I replaced and it's never done it again. I'll always start there if anything weird happens. Good luck!
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