JeepForum.com

JeepForum.com (https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/)
-   TJ Wrangler Technical Forum (https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/)
-   -   Lift and gears (https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/lift-gears-3564690/)

Denbowcj7 01-02-2016 03:24 PM

Lift and gears
 
I'm running stock gears (4.10) and 2.5 RC lift at the moment with 32s. I'm pretty sure I want to do 4.88 gears with around 3.5-4 in lift. With my 32s the 4.10s aren't horrible but yet I'll end up going to a bigger size tire eventually. My 4cyl can't handle too much more. It does alright at low speeds but once I get up to highway speeds it doesn't like to stay at a constant speed. This is my daily but also go off-road probably once every month if that. I would love some opinions so I can hear all the options I have. I'm a college student so I'm steadily saving money for this project. Might be a while till I get enough. So opinions of height and brand of lift and if that's the best option for my gears.
Thanks.

Denbowcj7 01-02-2016 08:31 PM

.

365Jeep 01-02-2016 08:39 PM

What size tires are you wanting to run? Are you keeping your 32s for the foreseeable future?

Denbowcj7 01-02-2016 09:41 PM

Would 4.88s be able to do 35s? I know for sure I'm atleast gonna go 33s

lander2312 01-02-2016 09:48 PM

I have the 2.5 and have 4.88and I love them. 35s and your going to have to do more than gears. Will need to upgrade the rear axel for sure cause the D35 won't like the 35s for long. With that said the 4.88 give me what I need but if going to 35s and sticking with the 4banger I would go 5.13. Only people I know who even make the 5.13 for the D35 is revolution.
Good luck

Denbowcj7 01-02-2016 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lander2312
I have the 2.5 and have 4.88and I love them. 35s and your going to have to do more than gears. Will need to upgrade the rear axel for sure cause the D35 won't like the 35s for long. With that said the 4.88 give me what I need but if going to 35s and sticking with the 4banger I would go 5.13. Only people I know who even make the 5.13 for the D35 is revolution. Good luck

yea you're right about about the d35. Guess I'm just gonna stay with 35. Can't afford a 44 and I really don't need tons. Thanks

Denbowcj7 01-02-2016 10:04 PM

Any opinions on lifts. Best for daily driver but does pretty good off-road. See a lot about zones but have not road in a jeep with a zone lift. Don't wanna spend no more than a 1,000 on one.

lander2312 01-03-2016 01:11 AM

Well if staying with the D35 then I suggest sticking with 33s. With 33s you will be perfect with the 4.88s.
Now as for lifts it all depends on what your really going to do. A lot of people think they will go wheeling and never do...or what they do is very mild. If that's the case get a budget lift. You said only 1000.... So it limits you if you pay to install

Denbowcj7 01-03-2016 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lander2312
Well if staying with the D35 then I suggest sticking with 33s. With 33s you will be perfect with the 4.88s. Now as for lifts it all depends on what your really going to do. A lot of people think they will go wheeling and never do...or what they do is very mild. If that's the case get a budget lift. You said only 1000.... So it limits you if you pay to install

I've got a 2.5 lift on it now and I'm upgrading because of the trails. I probably won't have to pay to install. Should be able to do most of it myself. But the 1000 is just the lift, not installing it. I'm just trying to find something that rides smooth but yet doesn't lack anything off-road. I'm not gonna give it hell off-road and do anything too serious but on a 1-5 scale 3 would be my max on off-roading

Ben 01-03-2016 08:06 AM

I wish I was back in college saving for a TJ build.
Hold onto your money for a bit while you're figuring it out.
A 4 banger will only produce so much torque.
A D35 rear will only live through so much torque.
Going from 4.10s to 4.88s, if done by a shop, you're likely to be about $2000 out the door.
(I'm sure someone will tell me that number is wrong by some marginal amount)
That two grand is a lot of cost opportunity for a young man, and isn't going to deliver in spades.
Sure, it will allow you to get slightly larger tires on your Jeep, and make it slightly cooler.
Problem is, if you only go maybe once a month, the fun delta between a 4.88/33" 2.5L TJ and a 4.10/32" 2.5L TJ, is going to be barely noticeable, especially if you're open/open.
If I had your Jeep, money, responsibilities, (and your seemingly infinite supply of potential future wives), I'd get a lunchbox locker for the front, and keep a few dollars in the bank for whatever maintenance might come up.
A front autolocker is one of the most cost effective dollars to performance you can do in one of these things.
I'd keep that TJ in top condition for whatever life might throw at me.
Easy for me to say as a monday morning quarterback talking.
Good luck with your schooling and your Jeep, in that order.

:cheers:

Denbowcj7 01-03-2016 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WKdeuce
I wish I was back in college saving for a TJ build. Hold onto your money for a bit while you're figuring it out. A 4 banger will only produce so much torque. A D35 rear will only live through so much torque. Going from 4.10s to 4.88s, if done by a shop, you're likely to be about $2000 out the door. (I'm sure someone will tell me that number is wrong by some marginal amount) That two grand is a lot of cost opportunity for a young man, and isn't going to deliver in spades. Sure, it will allow you to get slightly larger tires on your Jeep, and make it slightly cooler. Problem is, if you only go maybe once a month, the fun delta between a 4.88/33" 2.5L TJ and a 4.10/32" 2.5L TJ, is going to be barely noticeable, especially if you're open/open. If I had your Jeep, money, responsibilities, (and your seemingly infinite supply of potential future wives), I'd get a lunchbox locker for the front, and keep a few dollars in the bank for whatever maintenance might come up. A front autolocker is one of the most cost effective dollars to performance you can do in one of these things. I'd keep that TJ in top condition for whatever life might throw at me. Easy for me to say as a monday morning quarterback talking. Good luck with your schooling and your Jeep, in that order. :cheers:

thanks, I appreciate it.

365Jeep 01-03-2016 01:27 PM

I would suggest 4.88s on 33s with your 4 banger.

For suspension, I would go for the absolute highest quality I could afford. Lockers are definitely cool and helpful, but I would wait and apply the cost of a locker to the suspension. Don't compromise suspension performance for a locker.

Building on a college budget is hard, but take your time and do it right the first time. If you are impatient, you can make costly compromises. Trust me, you don't want to make the same modification two or three times! I've been there!

Denbowcj7 01-03-2016 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 365Jeep
I would suggest 4.88s on 33s with your 4 banger. For suspension, I would go for the absolute highest quality I could afford. Lockers are definitely cool and helpful, but I would wait and apply the cost of a locker to the suspension. Don't compromise suspension performance for a locker. Building on a college budget is hard, but take your time and do it right the first time. If you are impatient, you can make costly compromises. Trust me, you don't want to make the same modification two or three times! I've been there!

deal just came up for a locker. Aussie locker for around 250, good deal? Bad brand?

365Jeep 01-03-2016 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denbowcj7 (Post 33430690)
deal just came up for a locker. Aussie locker for around 250, good deal? Bad brand?

There are a number of people who will recommend a front locker first. I'm not one of them. A drop in locker like an Aussie or Lock Rite is an easy solution, but I blew up a Lock Rite in my old CJ. If you're planning on doing gears anyway, wait and do a full case locker.

Your basic TJ lift kit may or may not come with adjustable upper control arms for the rear. I would spend my money first on a quality suspension system (like one without a transfer case drop). If you can keep your tires on the ground with a good flexy suspension, you will reduce your need for a locker. If you intend to keep your D30/D35 combo, work out your suspension, tires, and wheels first. That's my opinion, others may view things differently.

rda616 01-03-2016 05:08 PM

The Aussie locker is fine. Many of us have had them for years and like them.

You already have a nice long spring with the RC 2.5". You will benefit from quality shocks. The RC shocks are awful. If you don't have front disconnects, or better an antirock you aren't using the suspension travel the 2.5" kit you have is capable.

You don't need more suspension lift for a 33" tire. You need to add a 1.25" body lift and a 1" motor mount lift. This will, or should allow you to remove any transfer case drop that you may already have. With the 1.25" BL and your 2.5"SL you should require no more bumpstop extension than what you have now requires.

You need to understand more lift doesn't mean a more capable suspension, but it does require many other upgrades when you hit that 3.5"-4" mark.

Denbowcj7 01-03-2016 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rda616
The Aussie locker is fine. Many of us have had them for years and like them. You already have a nice long spring with the RC 2.5". You will benefit from quality shocks. The RC shocks are awful. If you don't have front disconnects, or better an antirock you aren't using the suspension travel the 2.5" kit you have is capable. You don't need more suspension lift for a 33" tire. You need to add a 1.25" body lift and a 1" motor mount lift. This will, or should allow you to remove any transfer case drop that you may already have. With the 1.25" BL and your 2.5"SL you should require no more bumpstop extension than what you have now requires. You need to understand more lift doesn't mean a more capable suspension, but it does require many other upgrades when you hit that 3.5"-4" mark.

if I don't have a tcase drop now, then I should still go this route? I do have disconnects, and I'm picking up that locker up tomorrow.

365Jeep 01-03-2016 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rda616 (Post 33431938)
You already have a nice long spring with the RC 2.5"...You will benefit from quality shocks...If you don't have front disconnects, or better an antirock you aren't using the suspension travel the 2.5" kit you have is capable...You need to add a 1.25" body lift and a 1" motor mount lift. This will, or should allow you to remove any transfer case drop that you may already have. With the 1.25" BL and your 2.5"SL you should require no more bumpstop extension than what you have now requires.

You need to understand more lift doesn't mean a more capable suspension, but it does require many other upgrades when you hit that 3.5"-4" mark.

I did edit rda616's post a bit in the quote above, but this is all really good advice. I forgot the OP mentioned the RC 2.5" lift. The BL and MML with the 2.5 should be plenty for 33's. Spend the remainder of your money on the best shocks you can afford (and the right length), and I think you'll be set. The Aussie may be fine, but I would still invest in suspension as a priority.

365Jeep 01-03-2016 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denbowcj7 (Post 33434098)
if I don't have a tcase drop now, then I should still go this route?

Yes. The MML will help with driveline angles.

Denbowcj7 01-03-2016 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 365Jeep
I did edit rda616's post a bit in the quote above, but this is all really good advice. I forgot the OP mentioned the RC 2.5" lift. The BL and MML with the 2.5 should be plenty for 33's. Spend the remainder of your money on the best shocks you can afford (and the right length), and I think you'll be set. The Aussie may be fine, but I would still invest in suspension as a priority.

so just get a better 2.5 in lift along with the BL and MML?

rda616 01-03-2016 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denbowcj7
so just get a better 2.5 in lift along with the BL and MML?

You don't need new springs unless you are adding a bunch of weight, but would benefit from quality shocks. You should buy shocks by extended and collapsed length and not by advertised lift size.

365Jeep 01-03-2016 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denbowcj7 (Post 33434882)
so just get a better 2.5 in lift along with the BL and MML?

Maybe we have overlooked a few things here.

There are a variety of Rough Country lifts available. Are you still using your stock control arms, or is your lift just longer springs and shocks?

This is the priority I would set. If you have any of the following items, don't replace them. Build on the things you already have.
  1. Good Springs
  2. Great shocks
  3. Currie Antirock or sway bar disconnects
  4. Flexy and adjustable control arms
  5. Motor Mount Lift & Body Lift to get the height you're looking for. (if you're looking for height)
  6. Adjustable track bars

365Jeep 01-03-2016 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rda616 (Post 33435226)
You should buy shocks by extended and collapsed length and not by advertised lift size.

This! Meaning you will want to remove your shocks and cycle your suspension to see full compression and extended lengths. The adjustable Ranchos are well regarded, come in a variety of lengths, and are reasonably priced. There are better shocks, but Rancho gives you a big bang for the buck, IMHO.

Denbowcj7 01-03-2016 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 365Jeep
Maybe we have overlooked a few things here. There are a variety of Rough Country lifts available. Are you still using your stock control arms, or is your lift just longer springs and shocks? This is the priority I would set. If you have any of the following items, don't replace them. Build on the things you already have.[*]Good Springs[*]Great shocks[*]Currie Antirock or sway bar disconnects[*]Flexy and adjustable control arms[*]Adjustable track bars

yea I need some control arms and I planned on get the track bar soon. What brand should I go on the control arms? RC alright?

365Jeep 01-03-2016 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denbowcj7 (Post 33435490)
yea I need some control arms and I planned on get the track bar soon. What brand should I go on the control arms? RC alright?

Again, depending on your budget...

Aluminum Savvy

Standard Currie

Metalcloak

I don't see that RC sells control arms, but I know several others do. Others may want to chime in here.

lander2312 01-03-2016 09:44 PM

Yes rough country sells an adjustable control arm. They have come a long way with quality in last 2 years. With that said...and I hate to hi jack this thread but could others smarter than me explain why one would spend the extra money for adjustable upper control arms?

Denbowcj7 01-03-2016 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 365Jeep
Again, depending on your budget... Aluminum Savvy Standard Currie Metalcloak I don't see that RC sells control arms, but I know several others do. Others may want to chime in here.

the whole set? Front and rear, upper and lower?

365Jeep 01-03-2016 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denbowcj7 (Post 33436258)
the whole set? Front and rear, upper and lower?

That's up to you. The main advantage is articulation and flexibility. The next is adjustability.

365Jeep 01-03-2016 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lander2312 (Post 33436154)
...could others smarter than me explain why one would spend the extra money for adjustable upper control arms?

If you have to choose adjustable, it's more important to choose the uppers. Adjustable rear uppers adjust pinion angle to compensate for lift either for a standard driveshaft or double cardan style. Adjustable front uppers adjust for driveshaft angle and also caster angle. The lower arms shouldn't need to be adjusted much from stock length in most cases.

Denbowcj7 01-03-2016 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 365Jeep
If you have to choose adjustable, it's more important to choose the uppers. Adjustable rear uppers adjust pinion angle to compensate for lift either for a standard driveshaft or double cardan style. Adjustable front uppers adjust for driveshaft angle and also caster angle. The lower arms shouldn't need to be adjusted much from stock length in most cases.

I'm probably gonna go with the RC brand, mainly because I get a discount through them. 699.95 for the whole set

Knuckelhead 01-03-2016 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 365Jeep (Post 33436570)
If you have to choose adjustable, it's more important to choose the uppers. Adjustable rear uppers adjust pinion angle to compensate for lift either for a standard driveshaft or double cardan style. Adjustable front uppers adjust for driveshaft angle and also caster angle. The lower arms shouldn't need to be adjusted much from stock length in most cases.

Both upper and lower axle control arms come into play when changing chassie lift and drivetrain. The front upper control arms may not need to be addressed in most cases with 4" and lower lifts.
Keeping the wheels centered in the wheel wells is important for clearance when articulating the suspension... HTH

365Jeep 01-03-2016 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckelhead
Keeping the wheels centered in the wheel wells is important for clearance when articulating the suspension... HTH

True, but there are plenty of reasonable lifts out there based on the stock control arms. IMO, the main value for a "normal" lift of 3"-4" is in the spherical type ends over the adjustability. Clearly the ideal is to have all 8 adjustable for fine tuning, but, if budget is a concern, I would prioritize the uppers.

365Jeep 01-03-2016 11:06 PM

Yeah, I'm pretty sure my last response is contradictory.

Knuckelhead 01-03-2016 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckelhead (Post 33436746)
Both upper and lower axle control arms come into play when changing chassie lift and drivetrain. The front upper control arms may not need to be addressed in most cases with 4" and lower lifts.
Keeping the wheels centered in the wheel wells is important for clearance when articulating the suspension... HTH

Quote:

Originally Posted by 365Jeep (Post 33436858)
True, but there are plenty of reasonable lifts out there based on the stock control arms. IMO, the main value for a "normal" lift of 3"-4" is in the spherical type ends over the adjustability. Clearly the ideal is to have all 8 adjustable for fine tuning, but, if budget is a concern, I would prioritize the uppers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 365Jeep (Post 33436898)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure my last response is contradictory.

I stand by my last post, like it or not... ;)

Jeeper69 01-04-2016 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WKdeuce (Post 33425810)
I wish I was back in college saving for a TJ build.
Hold onto your money for a bit while you're figuring it out.
A 4 banger will only produce so much torque.
A D35 rear will only live through so much torque.
Going from 4.10s to 4.88s, if done by a shop, you're likely to be about $2000 out the door.
(I'm sure someone will tell me that number is wrong by some marginal amount)
That two grand is a lot of cost opportunity for a young man, and isn't going to deliver in spades.
Sure, it will allow you to get slightly larger tires on your Jeep, and make it slightly cooler.
Problem is, if you only go maybe once a month, the fun delta between a 4.88/33" 2.5L TJ and a 4.10/32" 2.5L TJ, is going to be barely noticeable, especially if you're open/open.
If I had your Jeep, money, responsibilities, (and your seemingly infinite supply of potential future wives), I'd get a lunchbox locker for the front, and keep a few dollars in the bank for whatever maintenance might come up.
A front autolocker is one of the most cost effective dollars to performance you can do in one of these things.
I'd keep that TJ in top condition for whatever life might throw at me.

Easy for me to say as a monday morning quarterback talking.
Good luck with your schooling and your Jeep, in that order.

:cheers:

I second what this guy said.

rda616 01-04-2016 04:54 AM

You will be ok with the RC arms. Just take care in assembly of the flex joints they give you, or they will fail. If they do fail you can replace them with a real Johnny Joint. Personally I would buy a set of used Currie, or Savvy arms off the classified adds here when they come available. If you don't do a SYE and double cardan driveshaft you will be setting the rear arms to stock length anyway. The front adjustable arms will be the only adjustment you will likely make to correct caster.

Metalcloak is the only adjustable track bar I would buy for a 2.5" lift.

I would also suggest Old Man Emu shocks.

Ben 01-04-2016 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 365Jeep (Post 33436530)
That's up to you. The main advantage is articulation and flexibility. The next is adjustability.

An added bonus to lowers is durability, however, at a certain point the axle end mount will suffer, depends how you drive I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denbowcj7 (Post 33430690)
deal just came up for a locker. Aussie locker for around 250, good deal? Bad brand?

That's not really a deal or bad deal, that's just about what they cost.
Aussie is a good brand, as is Spartan, and another that's escaping me right now.
Keep researching, you're getting a lot of good info in here, but there's a ton more out there.
A quality track bar was a good point whoever mentioned that.
Don't let your Christmas money burn a hole in your pocket...

Ross 01-04-2016 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denbowcj7 (Post 33435490)
yea I need some control arms and I planned on get the track bar soon. What brand should I go on the control arms? RC alright?

I have been running the new RC adj arms for almost three years now and they have been great. I have 3" susp, 1 inch body lift and a belly up, ARBs front and rear. They have been down the road, rougher trails and rocks, mud, water etc and I have had no problems at all.

What I have experienced on the trial is getting stuck behind broken dana 35s. If you plan on locking and or regearing your axles I would STRONGLY recommend upgrading the dana 35 before ANYTHING else. .

Your RC springs, a body lift stock control arms, a dana 44, lockers and gears will get you further down the trial than 35s, the best lift in the world and a broken dana 35.

365Jeep 01-04-2016 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckelhead (Post 33437074)
I stand by my last post, like it or not... ;)

Hey Knucklehead, no reason not to stand by your post. Everything you said is spot on, and my comment about my contradictory post was about my post being internally contradictory to itself.

My intent was to suggest, for those on a tight budget, a priority and a little clarity about my opinion. A full set of high quality control arms can easily cost as much as many budget lift kits.

Again, and more clearly, high quality control arms offer some type of flexible joints at the ends that help reduce binding and improve articulation. High quality control arms are typically adjustable. If I were to prioritize based solely on adjustability, I would choose the uppers to adjust driveline angles.

For those less budget minded, I would recommend 8 fully adjustable control arms for their fine-tuning ability for precise driveshaft angle adjustment and for precise location of the axles.

365Jeep 01-04-2016 08:08 AM

I will double down on my original recommendation. This is my recommendation. There are many and probably many more qualified and credible than mine.

The most important advice I would give would be to focus on school and avoid debt! I built 4 motocross bikes and started my CJ-7 build while in college. I graduated with a Master's degree in 2000, and I'm still paying off debt! Sure the debt paid for my tuition, but it also paid for axle and suspension parts for a Jeep I no longer own. Be patient and smart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 365Jeep (Post 33429362)
I would suggest 4.88s on 33s with your 4 banger.

For suspension, I would go for the absolute highest quality I could afford. Lockers are definitely cool and helpful, but I would wait and apply the cost of a locker to the suspension. Don't compromise suspension performance for a locker.

Building on a college budget is hard, but take your time and do it right the first time. If you are impatient, you can make costly compromises. Trust me, you don't want to make the same modification two or three times! I've been there!


Ross 01-04-2016 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 365Jeep (Post 33439402)
I will double down on my original recommendation. This is my recommendation. There are many and probably many more qualified and credible than mine.

The most important advice I would give would be to focus on school and avoid debt! I built 4 motocross bikes and started my CJ-7 build while in college. I graduated with a Master's degree in 2000, and I'm still paying off debt! Sure the debt paid for my tuition, but it also paid for axle and suspension parts for a Jeep I no longer own. Be patient and smart.

OP, this is something to think about. The harder you wheel the more risk you run of busting something on the Jeep. If money is tight and you bust your Jeep what happens if you have no money to fix it? Can your Jeep sit a few moths while you save the money to fix it or do you need your Jeep on a regular basis?


The time now is 06:46 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.