Howling/whirring noise on deceleration at 45-60 mph - JeepForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 42 Old 10-16-2006, 04:57 AM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
Howling/whirring noise on deceleration at 45-60 mph-DIY axle rebuild

Well it may have been inevitable, I'm finally having a suspected problem from the D35. It happened on the way back from a 275 mile trip with the atv's. I started noticing a whirring or howling noise at highway speeds (45-60 ) if I let off the throttle completely.

At first I thought ring & pinion problems but after some research, it seems as if I may have lost the just the bearings or preload for one reason or another. Found a good website devoted to driveline noises too.

http://www.4x4now.com/gt0699.htm

Anyhow, I'll have to check it out real quickly as the D44 is not in the budget within the next year.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by dragginwagon406; 02-25-2007 at 10:58 AM.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 42 Old 10-17-2006, 03:13 AM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
Completely tore down the differential tonight. Lucky me, the gears look like they are still good. However, the same cannot be said about the carrier bearings. Looks like I need new bearings throughout the rear end.

For having replaced the gear lube about a month ago, it was heavily contaminated with what appeared to be brass. At first I was thinking clutches but the Trac-Loc still feels tight. Did not have any bearing cage failures but the hardened linings of the races were definitely coming up.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by dragginwagon406; 10-17-2006 at 04:58 AM.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
post #3 of 42 Old 10-17-2006, 04:27 AM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
Thought I'd share some photos and comments along the way for those who may have the same problem in the future.

Tools Required:
Floor jack
Jack stands
1/2" socket 3/8" drive
6" extension 3/8" drive
3/8" ratchet
13/16" socket 1/2" drive
1 1/8" socket 1/2" drive
1/2" drive ratchet
1/2" drive impact wrench***optional but highly recommended***
5/16" combination wrench
1/4" 12 point combination wrench
Urethane mallet
24-32 oz Ball peen hammer
Flat head screw driver to remove seals
18" Long driving rod to knock out outer races
Bearing slicer
HD 2 jaw puller
24" Adjustable wrench - hold yoke while setting pinion preload
3/4" drive ratchet
1 1/8" socket 3/4" drive - set pinion preload
Dial indicator - measure backlash
Dial Caliper - measure shim thickness
Gear marking compound
Slide Hammer - pulling/intalling wheel bearings


Parts Required:
(1) M86610 Front pinion bearing outer race $6.99
(1) M86649 Front pinion bearing inner race $13.99
(1) M88610 Rear pinion bearing outer race $10.99
(1) M88649 Rear pinion bearing inner race $23.99
(2) 5707 Timken Axle bearing $12.99
(2) 14119 Axle seals $
(2) 706016X Carrier bearings
(1) 714675 Pinion Seal $10.99


Shim kit


Support the rear end with jack stands.



Remove both tires - 13/16" socket



Remove the drums



With manual transmission in gear, disconnect the rear u-joint from the yoke and pry out - 5/16" wrench, small prybar. I prefer to reinstall the caps right away as it keep parts from disappearing.



Drain gear lube by removing all but the top 2 bolts form the cover. Tap cover with mallet to break loose. Remove diff-cover - 1/2" socket, urethane mallet. The contamination can be seen clinging to the cover.



Remove cross pin bolt - 1/4" 12 point wrench - no exceptions



Wiggle the cross pin back and forth to loosen it up. Eventually it will come out easily one direction or the other by hand.



Tap the axles inward slightly to expose the C-clips.



Remove pasenger side C-clip. Pull axle clear of carrier.



Remove driver side C-clip. Pull axle clear of carrier. At this point, I like to reinstall the cross pin to keep the spider gears in place.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by dragginwagon406; 12-30-2008 at 06:24 PM.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
 
post #4 of 42 Old 10-17-2006, 04:29 AM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
Ensure carrier bearing caps are clearly marked, both side to side and top to bottom. Mine were already stamped with letters. Remove bearing caps while holding carrier in position - 5/8" socket. Before pulling carrier, be sure to have a grasp on all spacers or shims which may be present and keep them on the correct side.





Opposite drive side spacer - .173" Drive side spacer .163"



Remove the pinion nut - 1 1/8" socket



Remove pinion.



Remove pinion seal by folding in outer edges- hammer and screw driver. Note front pinion bearing must be installed before the seal.



Inspect all components. Here is a photo of the drive side carrier bearing outer race.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by dragginwagon406; 10-21-2006 at 03:05 PM.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
post #5 of 42 Old 10-17-2006, 05:14 AM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
Now is a great time to inspect the axle splines as well. Everything looks OK.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by dragginwagon406; 10-17-2006 at 12:41 PM.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
post #6 of 42 Old 10-17-2006, 07:52 AM
Wheelin98TJ
JEEP FREAK
 
Wheelin98TJ's Avatar
2020 J-Series Truck 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Devils Lake
Posts: 26,999
Hey, nice work with the pics and descriptions.

This will be very helpful to anyone else doing this job in the future.
Wheelin98TJ is offline  
post #7 of 42 Old 10-17-2006, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelin98TJ
Hey, nice work with the pics and descriptions.

This will be very helpful to anyone else doing this job in the future.
Thanks. I kind of like doing these type of things.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
post #8 of 42 Old 10-17-2006, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
Time to pull the bearings. This can be a very frustrating task but can be accomplished a few different ways. I chose to use a puller but alternatively, you could use a torch or cut them off with a rotary cutter.

First, the rear pinion bearing. You will need to fit special tool first...I think it is called a bearing slicer. I picked up one at Harbor Freight for the job. Remeber to put some grease on the end of the pinion shaft.



Then attach the 2 jaw puller. Ideally, I wanted to use a 2 slot puller, but the one I has was too small for the job. This job is much easier when using an impact gun.



As you pull the bearing, the pinion shim will be exposed - .045" in my case. Be sure to clean and reinstall the shim before installing the new bearing.



Speaking of the new bearing, is it finished cooking yet? Tapered roller bearings can be a pain to install, especially if you don't get them on all the way the first time. 400°F in the oven for 1/2 hour and it should slide completely onto the pinion. Remember, as bearings cool they can shrink back from the shoulder so hold the bearing in place until it grips the bearing fit.

***Edit*** 3/23/07
Technically, according to the bearing manufacturers 400°F is about 100°F too hot (although I have not had any problems). I did try lower temperatures first, but did not have much luck with the bearing making it completely to the shoulder.

As a side note, I would recommend covering the pizza tin with tin foil before cooking the bearing as then you can simply throw away the tin foil without damaging your tin.

The following link to Timken's wesite details many bearing related questions:
http://www.timken.com/products/bearings/techtips.asp

With a section on heating bearings here: http://www.timken.com/products/beari...Fs/Vol3No1.pdf




Since I don't like taking any chances with the bearing not sliding on, I also place the pinion in the freezer for 1/2 hour as well.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by dragginwagon406; 03-24-2007 at 03:19 AM.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
post #9 of 42 Old 10-17-2006, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
This is turning out to be a royal pain in the back side.

When I originally removed the carrier it just about hit me in the head as it fell out but after installing the new bearings, the original shims will not go in. To add insult to frustration, the shims broke from hitting them with the dead blow mallet. Need to find a local source for the carrier shims as the cast ones (pieces) are too thick anyhow.

Delays, delays

Added shim kit to parts needed and dial indicator and caliper to tools needed


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by dragginwagon406; 10-20-2006 at 06:25 PM.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
post #10 of 42 Old 10-18-2006, 05:24 AM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
Anyhow, back to the pictures.

Rear pinon bearing slid on - this shim was cleaned and in position before taking the bearing out of the oven.



Tap the outer races into the housings. Be sure to wipe out the housings, first with a rag, then with a clean finger to catch and grit or contamination which may be hiding. Many people would use brass driving rods but I use soft steel flat chiesels. The bearings are hardened so just make sure the taps are light and you will not have any problems.




Before setting the front inner race in the housing, be sure to clean the entire differential housing. If it is like mine, there was a lot of contamination from the old bearings. Pay attention to the drain channel in front of the front pinion bearing.



I'm always paranoid about leaks, so I put a small layer of Ultra Blue around the outside of the pinion seal.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
post #11 of 42 Old 10-18-2006, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
I ended up buying a carrier shim kit (not cheap), a new crush collar and some gear marking compound.

When I tightened up the yoke originally, I accidentally went past the correct free play. Once you go past the correct free play, there is no loosening the pinion nut back up. If you do, the bearings loose their preload because the crush collar is too narrow and loosening the nut willl make the crush collar loose on the pinion shaft between the bearings. I could actully hear mine as I spun the pinion.

From what I have read and now learned is in order to set the pinion free play, you will need to hand tighten the pinion nut using a 3/4" drive ratchet with 1 1/8" socket and a 24" adjustable wrench to hold the yoke. As you compress the new crush collar, the free play in the bearings will be eliminated.



You need to go past this point until the desired free play is reached. I didn't have an inch*lb needle torque wrench, so I guestimated a 10 lb pull at 1 inch to keep the pinion spinning. Getting the pinion nut tight enough for this free play can be difficult (read it takes about a 125 lb pull on a 2' ratchet) and time consuming (turn a little and recheck free play.) You must not overtighten the nut or you will need a new crush collar.

Once the free play is set in the pinion, then the carrier set into place. I knew the stock shim's .173 drive and .163 opposite were too thick. So, at first I tried .168" and .160". Unfortunately after seating the bearings and torquing the caps to 55 lb*ft, there was no back lash to be felt. Overall, the total shim package seemed correct so I switched the shims side for side. After seating the bearings, the back lash felt correct. I then verified .007" back lash with a dial indicator in a couple of places.

I then took gear marking compound and checked the contact pattern in a couple of areas. It was biased slightly toward the toe but centered between flank and face. So everything looks OK.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by dragginwagon406; 10-21-2006 at 02:56 PM.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
post #12 of 42 Old 10-18-2006, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
Changed the wheel bearings and axle seals.

Remove the seal in the same manner as the yoke.



The wheel bearing puller from Harbor Freight worked like a champ, a couple of quick hits with a slide hammer and the bearings slide right out.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92884





Although probably not built for installing the new bearings, the washer which supports the bearing when pulling works great for installing the bearings too.

Slide hammer available at Autozone for rent. http://www.autozone.com/in_our_store...ide_hammer.htm





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by dragginwagon406; 10-21-2006 at 03:16 PM.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
post #13 of 42 Old 10-18-2006, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
Put it all back together. No more noise. I plan on draining the oil and changing out one more time to hopefully catch the remaining contamination.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
post #14 of 42 Old 10-19-2006, 08:48 AM
IOTJ
Registered User
 
IOTJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 122
Thanks for the writeup and great pictures, DragginWaggon. Definitely a useful thread. Added it to "favorites".
IOTJ is offline  
post #15 of 42 Old 10-19-2006, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
dragginwagon406
Registered User
 
dragginwagon406's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 1,275
No problem...I have few more pictures to add as well as some more comments. Overall this job is not overly hard, it just takes some specialized tools, some of which can be rented at Autozone. Oh yeah, and some patience.

If you are like me, you use repairs like these as oportunies to strengthen your personal tool inventory.

Now I need to find a little more information on which gear oil to run. I'm not absolutely sure, but I had recently changed my gear oil to 80W-90 Coastal from Autozone and added the tube of posi-lube only one month before failure. I should mention, my gear oil looked horrible before I changed it too. There may have been some prexisting problem.

The question is what weight oil to get? I will probably stick with Valvoline instead of Coastal next time just because I am reluctant to do this job again. I do a fair amount of highway towing and work the differential pretty hard (2 hours straight, at or near wide open throttle.)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dragginwagon406 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Jeep Forums Replies Last Post
Deceleration whirring noise JeepRubi04 TJ Wrangler Technical Forum 10 12-09-2009 04:46 PM
TJ Clattering noise on deceleration offroadbama TJ Wrangler Technical Forum 4 03-21-2009 05:28 PM
help with weird squeaking noise during deceleration tkwok YJ Wrangler Technical Forum 0 01-25-2009 12:58 AM
Howling noise in 5th DBLJ TJ Wrangler Technical Forum 14 12-01-2008 03:06 PM
Howling Noise Mattyman TJ Wrangler Technical Forum 7 02-15-2008 05:06 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome