Front or rear locker first? - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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post #16 of 35 Old 09-13-2014, 07:14 PM
mrblaine
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Originally Posted by suicideking View Post
Agree that there's no reason to lock a D30 if you have an open D44. Rear first. Also like ARB, but Eaton is also nice. Definitely want an air locker up front though because it will unlock faster so you can steer. Not as important in the rear.
Next time you're in the neighborhood, stop by and I'll give you an education on how much pressure it takes on a tire to keep the ARB locked after you've hit the switch to unlock it.

If you don't have an ARB up front, I can use one of mine with a tire off the ground. Lock it, use one finger to pull or push on a tire lug and then unlock it. It won't freewheel because the disengagement springs aren't strong enough to kick the locking dog clutch plates away from each other under any kind of a load.

That means you have to get the differential to full neutral and remove the load on the dog clutch before it will disengage which also means that any differential action from the opposing tires will keep it locked.

Anyone that puts a front locker in first is being silly. Rear first, then the front.


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post #17 of 35 Old 09-15-2014, 10:18 AM
suicideking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
Next time you're in the neighborhood, stop by and I'll give you an education on how much pressure it takes on a tire to keep the ARB locked after you've hit the switch to unlock it.

If you don't have an ARB up front, I can use one of mine with a tire off the ground. Lock it, use one finger to pull or push on a tire lug and then unlock it. It won't freewheel because the disengagement springs aren't strong enough to kick the locking dog clutch plates away from each other under any kind of a load.

That means you have to get the differential to full neutral and remove the load on the dog clutch before it will disengage which also means that any differential action from the opposing tires will keep it locked.

Anyone that puts a front locker in first is being silly. Rear first, then the front.
My LJ has ARB front and rear. Mostly what I was comparing to was my JKU that had an OEM locker front and ARB rear. The front on that Jeep took a few feet of rolling to unlock the front.

I tried my LJ this weekend and when unlocking the front, didn't notice that delay where it's hard to steer. It was an easy trail though (Cleghorn) so didn't lock the front much.

I would eventually like your input on my suspension (and many other things). Off topic for this thread though...
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post #18 of 35 Old 09-15-2014, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
Next time you're in the neighborhood, stop by and I'll give you an education on how much pressure it takes on a tire to keep the ARB locked after you've hit the switch to unlock it.

If you don't have an ARB up front, I can use one of mine with a tire off the ground. Lock it, use one finger to pull or push on a tire lug and then unlock it. It won't freewheel because the disengagement springs aren't strong enough to kick the locking dog clutch plates away from each other under any kind of a load.

That means you have to get the differential to full neutral and remove the load on the dog clutch before it will disengage which also means that any differential action from the opposing tires will keep it locked.

Anyone that puts a front locker in first is being silly. Rear first, then the front.
I almost always have to reverse a bit to unlock my front ARB.


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post #19 of 35 Old 09-15-2014, 11:00 AM
365Jeep
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Lockers are okay on snow, but they are dangerous on ice! Selectable lockers are truly the way to go for a daily driver. I would avoid lunchbox lockers altogether, but the Detroit locker is a good choice for an automatic locker. I've had them all, and for my current build, I'm going with the eaton e-locker.


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post #20 of 35 Old 09-16-2014, 07:43 AM
Jerry Bransford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NakedJeeper View Post
I almost always have to reverse a bit to unlock my front ARB.
If you studied how selectable lockers like the ARB, E-Locker, Rubicon air lockers, etc. work you'd quickly figure out there's no benefit to driving in reverse to get them unlocked.

When you have a choice, buy American made.
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post #21 of 35 Old 09-16-2014, 10:04 AM
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I did not see it mentioned, maybe it was, but if not...

Your rear should already have a limited slip in the D44, very rare if it does not.

SO lock the front and keep the limited slip(LSD) rear. Some will say that the LSD is worthless, but then so is their evaluation or web wheeling opinion. A LSD is better than a open every day of the week, in traction. Yes after maybe 50-80K miles it is not tight and as effective, but it is still better than open.

Why remove a traction adding device and a open, for a locker and a open? LSD and locker will be a much better traction setup than a locker and open. No matter where each is located.
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post #22 of 35 Old 09-16-2014, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 365Jeep View Post
I've had them all, and for my current build, I'm going with the eaton e-locker.
Each Jeep and owner are different and thats a good thing. But have you considered what you are getting, or Not getting for your money?

Elocker is typically in the 850-925$ range, and has a very limited 1 yr warranty. They are a basic design but require wiring ran in a protected manner to allow reliable function.

Yukon Zip air locker is in the 700$ range and has a 6yr no questions asked warranty as well as 2yr up to $2000 collateral damage and labor coverage warranty. Requires a 180-280$ compressor. The 280$ compressor allows tire inflation as needed on trail. Requires intelligent and thought out air line routing to allow reliable fuction.

E-locker might be a tad bit easier to install, but if you are installing a e-locker than you better have some aptitude and so installing the air locker and sleeving the air line with 3/8 fuel or air hose, and routing it intelligently should not be very difficult.

Not to mention I am a firm believer that a street driven trail rig should have a air source for after the trail ride or even during, as needed. And if you compare the cost of 2 E-lockers to the cost of 2 Yukon air locker and a HD air up compressor, it is a wash. but you get many more perks with the air locker system...

Just my .02
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post #23 of 35 Old 09-16-2014, 01:29 PM
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In my pervious TJ I had a locker in the rear and TruTrac in the front.
The TruTrac is a LSD but is the closest thing to a locker without the bad traits of a locker on snow, ice and mud.........you do not lose steering.

I had an ARB in a Cherokee.........in the year that I owned it, I had it apart twice with problems......seals, leaks, busted airline......I am not a fan of the ARB.

If I were setting up a jeep I would probably go with an OX locker or Detroit in the rear. And probably a TruTrac or an electric locker in the front.

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post #24 of 35 Old 09-16-2014, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyTJ View Post
In my pervious TJ I had a locker in the rear and TruTrac in the front.
The TruTrac is a LSD but is the closest thing to a locker without the bad traits of a locker on snow, ice and mud.........you do not lose steering.

I had an ARB in a Cherokee.........in the year that I owned it, I had it apart twice with problems......seals, leaks, busted airline......I am not a fan of the ARB.

If I were setting up a jeep I would probably go with an OX locker or Detroit in the rear. And probably a TruTrac or an electric locker in the front.
SO I am going to assume that the Yukon air lockers have a much more reliable locker seal/o-ring design. they have been sold for about 6 years now and in that 6 years I have only seen one with a internal leak, out of I would assume 50-75 per year so 300-450 units. And its covered for 6yr with warranty, meaning that they would call if there was an issue with any of them...

Ox... Really. now theres a problematic design.

Every locker has its pro's and cons. I just know that the Zips have the highest pros, and lowest cons. And most will not experience a issue with any of them really.
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post #25 of 35 Old 09-16-2014, 03:04 PM
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Must be the calm before the storm.
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post #26 of 35 Old 09-16-2014, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwkhaus View Post
SO I am going to assume that the Yukon air lockers have a much more reliable locker seal/o-ring design. they have been sold for about 6 years now and in that 6 years I have only seen one with a internal leak, out of I would assume 50-75 per year so 300-450 units. And its covered for 6yr with warranty, meaning that they would call if there was an issue with any of them...

Ox... Really. now theres a problematic design.

Every locker has its pro's and cons. I just know that the Zips have the highest pros, and lowest cons. And most will not experience a issue with any of them really.
Your Randy is showing a bit.

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post #27 of 35 Old 09-16-2014, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mrblaine View Post
Your Randy is showing a bit.
Well as you know Blaine, he is not as high on my list as he has been and I have many options avail. I may venture out for gears, masters, axles, etc. but I really do believe in the Grizzly and Zip. I would have to deal with all the returns of all the ones I have sold if there were issues, due to his warranty on them. And I only see about 1 shaft per year, 1 gear set per year and 1 locker now every 2 years. I had 3 E-Lockers in the first year I start all this and they were Hell to try and get Eaton to do anything on. SO I just do and say what I feel on this one.
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post #28 of 35 Old 09-16-2014, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
If you studied how selectable lockers like the ARB, E-Locker, Rubicon air lockers, etc. work you'd quickly figure out there's no benefit to driving in reverse to get them unlocked.
You're right. "Drive" was the wrong verb.


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post #29 of 35 Old 09-16-2014, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwkhaus View Post
Well as you know Blaine, he is not as high on my list as he has been and I have many options avail. I may venture out for gears, masters, axles, etc. but I really do believe in the Grizzly and Zip. I would have to deal with all the returns of all the ones I have sold if there were issues, due to his warranty on them. And I only see about 1 shaft per year, 1 gear set per year and 1 locker now every 2 years. I had 3 E-Lockers in the first year I start all this and they were Hell to try and get Eaton to do anything on. SO I just do and say what I feel on this one.
For what is worth, the spec car I drove in EMC this year and Grizzly's installed and it worked well. Thank you Yukon for supporting the spec class.
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post #30 of 35 Old 09-16-2014, 04:01 PM
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Back to the OP'er. I'd do a rear 1st. Personally that is what I did and it opened up many more lines on the trail. Then once I put the front in it REALLY helped. Rear is nice, front is nice. Put em together and your rig is GREAT. I have an ARB up front and if your on a trail that is tight with alot of sharp turns that locker is really gonna bind up your steering. To the point of no steering at times until you get a hydro assist.
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