Engine light came on, pulled code- p0431 - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 50 Old 08-21-2010, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
gebirgziege
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Engine light came on, pulled code- p0431

Soooooo, my 06 LJ Rubi just turned 10k miles 3 days ago.

today my check engine light came on.
dropped by auto zone to pull codes. here is what i got. (a copy of the printout)

------------------------------------------
Troubleshooting P0431
OEM Brand: Domestic

Definition
Catalyst efficiency low-bank 2
Explanation
The oxygen sensors monitor the Catalytic Converters ability to store oxygen.
Probable cause
1.-Catalytic converter defective (failure possibly due to # 2, 3, or 4)
2.-Engine misfire or running condition
3.-Large vacuum leak
4.-Engine oil leakage into exhaust-valve guide seals, piston rings

-------------------------------------------

here are the current symptoms:
-seems like there is a small exhaust manifold leak when started cold.
-a few drops of oil between bell housing and back of engine that runs down the oil pan.
-a faint clicking (not knocking) sound while in the cab as engine idles and is running. it increases and decreases as rpms do.
-dark black soot around the edge of the tailpipe.
-excessive mpg, like 10-15... well that could be cuz its heavy, auto, 33's, lifted w 4.10's (probly not an issue)

other pertinent info:
-no engine knocking
-no overheating
-no black, blue, gray, or white smoke in exhaust
-no sweet smells in exhaust
-no oil level issues (@ normal level, and color)

this is weird, only 10k miles and there are issues.
wtf!? i thought this 4.0L I6 was supposed to be bomb proof?

any ideas of how to identify the exact issue would greatly be appreciated. thanks guys.




44 Ford gpw rblt all original. 06 LJ Rubicon black on black - project.
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post #2 of 50 Old 08-22-2010, 04:14 AM
clarkja
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So your jeep only has 10,000 miles on it? WOW. Mine just threw that code at me the other day. From what I've picked up from the braintrust of this site I'm going to say that you need to fix your exhaust leaks, reset the code by unhooking the battery for a couple of minutes and then see if it comes back. I was getting ready to change my plugs when mine showed up. I changed the plugs, reset it and so far so good. If fixing the manifold leak doesn't help you may need to go to a dealer and get them to replace the cats under the 8/80 cat warranty. Of course we all know how the dealers work so be prepared for that crap when you go. Don't buy the oxy sensors from them either, you can get them a lot cheaper at parts stores.

Good luck

05 I.O. LJ Rubi,285/75 Cooper STT,2"BDS,1.25"JKS BL,MORE 1" MML,Spidertrax,Rokmen Rear Bumper
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post #3 of 50 Old 08-22-2010, 05:58 AM
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10,000 miles in 4 years? That is your issue.Bad gas(old gas) and dry rotting vacuum hoses from little use.You need to keep very fresh gas in the tank and drive the thing.Need to "blow the cobwebs out" at least once a week,a good 30-60min trip at highway speeds to get everything at normal operating temps.Alot of short trips kills cats and sensors.

'02 Liberty sitting on 35" tires,HP44,RockJock60,and AtlasII t-case
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post #4 of 50 Old 08-22-2010, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
gebirgziege
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i will try to check things out. i got the jeep with 7k miles on it in march. thing ran well, the california owner mudded it a lot. which is frustrating since everything was coated in silica red brown dirt. that was a mistake since rubis belong on the rocks.

since i have had this jeep i have used it as a DD. all the bad gas has been run through a long time ago.

anyways, i will try messing with the battery, looking at spark plugs.

anyone have ideas to locate and fix cracks on the exhaust manifold?
it looks like a PITA to take out and put back in. any advice?

44 Ford gpw rblt all original. 06 LJ Rubicon black on black - project.
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post #5 of 50 Old 08-22-2010, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
gebirgziege
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ok dcd the battery and touched pos and neg leads. that cleared it. no code. any help with the exhaust manifold would be great.

i will let you know if the light shows again.

thanks for the help jeep peeps

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post #6 of 50 Old 09-29-2010, 01:16 AM
screamineagle1
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THIS IS THE BEST HELP I COULD FIND
INFO FROM
Discount Converters LTD.
1419 Upland Drive
Houston, Texas 77043


Explaining Trouble Codes PO420 - PO421- PO430 - PO431



WHAT IT MEANS WHEN YOUR GET A CODE READ OF PO420 OR PO430

It is important to remember that if your "Check Engine Light" illuminates and someone just simply reads a code of PO420, 421, 430 or 431 this does not necessarily mean the Catalytic Converter is bad! All that code says is either Converter operating below efficency or Converter operating below threshold. No where in the interpretation of that code does it say the converter is bad. Your vehicle may very well need a Catalytic Converter but to determine this, your mechanic or technician should perform proper engine diagnostics. Just reading a simple code is NOT considered performing diagnostics. The following material should give you a better understanding of what proper diagnostics consist of and how they should be performed. If after reading this material you still have questions please give us a call, 888-651-0770, and we will do all we can to help you solve the problem.



When your vehicle generates those emission codes it simply means that the converter is not able to function properly. Remember that the catalytic converter is at the very end of the emission diagnostic system, and a number of things can go wrong upstream of the converter that can cause. a PO420 (or PO430) MIL light illumination.

PO420 or PO430 CODE CATALYTIC CONVERTER FAILURE DIAGNOSTICS
Following is a list of procedures that should be accomplished before the final determination that a new catalytic converter is needed. These are known as diagnostic procedures and go far beyond someone just performing a simple code reading and then declaring a bad converter is present. That is not performing proper diagnostics! The following items will outline proper diagnostics in determining whether a converter is good or bad.

EXHAUST RELATED ERROR CODES

There are 711 possible PO generic DTC error codes. Only 7 of the 711 codes are exhaust related.

PO401: Insufficient EGR Flow

PO402: Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Excessive Flow Detected

PO410: Secondary Air Injection System Malfunction

PO420: Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)

PO421: Warm-Up Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)

PO430: Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 2)

PO431: Warm-Up Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 2)

THINGS TO ASK YOURSELF OR YOUR CUSTOMER

Have there been any driveability or performance issues with the vehicle, have there been any recent repairs or tune-up work performed, if so was the check engine light reset and were the codes recorded on previous repair orders.

Do not rely on scan tool data alone. In most applications, the customer will have the check engine light reset prior to repair. If the original cause of converter failure is intermittent, only the catalyst failure code may show up (masking the original reason for converter failure).

VEHICLE TEST

If possible, test-drive the vehicle and note any driveability issues that may indicate fuel or spark delivery problems such as hesitation, stumbling, spark knock or signs of misfire.
Idle smoothness. Check for any signs of surging or roughness, indicating misfire or improper fuel delivery.
Check the tailpipe, particularly immediately following start-up, for any smoke indicating too rich AFR (black smoke), water/antifreeze (white Smoke), or oil (blue smoke).
Listen to engine carefully for any signs of vacuum or exhaust manifold leaks.
Inspect intake system for signs of oil indicating excessive blow-by or cracks that may cause leaks.
Inspect spark plugs/wires and air filter.
Scan tool test.
Do not reset MIL light!!
Read the OBD-II readiness tests to ensure all tests have been completed. If the tests have not been completed, chances are the MIL was recently reset, possibly hiding intermittent problems.
Read trouble codes (if any) and inspect as necessary.
Read pending trouble codes (if any) and inspect as necessary.
With engine running and at operating temperature, read scan data list. This is typically a table listing all available sensors and outputs.
Look at Long Term Fuel Trims (LTFT). These show the amount (in %) the computer is modifying fuel delivery, based on the 02 sensor feedback. Positive numbers indicate the computer is adding fuel, negative numbers indicate the com*puter is removing fuel. Large positive numbers (>10%) should be investigated further as they indicate the computer is adding more fuel than originally designed.
Look at the O2 sensor output signals. Sensor 1 is before the converter, Sensor 2 is behind the converter, Bank 1 and 2 are typically used in V-configuration where Bank 1 is on the side Cylinder 1 is located. Some inline 6 cylinder engines have Bank 1 as Cylinders 1-3 and Bank 2 as Cylinders 4-6. The sensors are usually abbreviated as O2S1B1 (O2 Sensor, Bank 1)
Sensor 1 output should be very active and oscillate rapidly from approximately 0 to less than 1 volt. If the signal tends to show high voltage with little fluctuation, excessive unburnt fuel is reaching the sensor. If Sensor 1 shows low or no voltage, the sensor could be defective, or there might be an exhaust leak in front of or immediately behind the sensor, or there could be a lack of fuel delivered to the combustion chamber. If the sensor does not respond to a rapid accelerator kickdown, chances are the sensor is defective. If it does respond, an exhaust leak or lack of fuel is indicated. (The preceding test must be done after the engine and exhaust system have been allowed to fully heat up.)




Sensor 2 should show a fairly steady signal. It is not critical what the signal is, only that it does not oscillate as frequently as the front. If the signal is above 250mV, the sensor is fine. If it is below, check for activity by rapid accelerator kick-down or by raising the engine speed to approximately 2000 rpm. Any movement indicates the sensor is fine.
The material above is designed to give our customers a better insight to their need of a catalytic converter replacement. If someone has told you that a new converter is required on your vehicle just from the simple reading of a "check engine light" code they are not doing their due dilligence and not performing complete diagnostics on that vehicle. Cars today are not smart enough to tell us what is wrong with them just by generating code, they simply tell us what hurts and it is up to a technician or mechanic to interpret those codes and then get to the root of the problem.

If you still have questions or would like us on to talk directly to your mechanic on your behalf, please give us a call at 888-651-0770 and we will be happy to assist you.
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post #7 of 50 Old 10-11-2010, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
gebirgziege
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If Sensor 1 shows low or no voltage, the sensor could be defective, or there might be an exhaust leak in front of or immediately behind the sensor

- i think it might be regarding this. it is leaking somewhere, it is deffinitively audible.

44 Ford gpw rblt all original. 06 LJ Rubicon black on black - project.
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post #8 of 50 Old 10-11-2010, 07:36 AM
tymekeepyr
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It's more than likely the cat.

I have the same problem.

So do 100's of others with that cat.

Call your local dealer and try to get a cat for your Jeep. There is a good chance that you will hear laughing in the background.

Ask how long the back-order is and how many are on the wait list...

You will cry. I have been waiting for about 2 months now, with no definitive delivery date in sight. At first they told me 2 weeks. I am now out of state Emissions/Inspection since the end of August (can't perform state safety inspection in the Commonwealth of PA without first passing emissions test)

Since the issues with the car industry, and subsequent Chrysler plant shut-downs, they have not been able to deliver lots of different parts and are pissing off a lot of their dealerships/vendors.

I called around to other local dealers to make sure that they weren't BS-ing me. The number of people waiting on that cat is over 200+.

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post #9 of 50 Old 10-11-2010, 08:19 AM
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I've got the same code and I am long past and warranty work. I don't like CELs because they can mask a real problem. The cats are available at Rock Auto but, not for CA. If, you need the cats and don't want to go through a dealer then you could have them by the end of the week.




For those who have fought for it, FREEDOM has a taste that the protected will never know."

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post #10 of 50 Old 10-11-2010, 09:21 AM
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I'm still within the manufacturer warranty.

That's the problem
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post #11 of 50 Old 10-11-2010, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
gebirgziege
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if you are take care of it... I unfortunately well, i guess fortunately... am my jeep's warranty.

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post #12 of 50 Old 10-11-2010, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
gebirgziege
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i tightened them up, i will see on the way home if anything has changed. thanks for that rock auto tip. I used to buy stuff from them when my cadillac had problems. i might pick that up if things don't improve very soon.

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post #13 of 50 Old 10-12-2010, 01:10 AM Thread Starter
gebirgziege
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F9K9 View Post
I've got the same code and I am long past and warranty work. I don't like CELs because they can mask a real problem. The cats are available at Rock Auto but, not for CA. If, you need the cats and don't want to go through a dealer then you could have them by the end of the week.




so which one is in this pic?

and by the way tightened the cat tubes onto the exhaust manifold.
helped a smidgen, but theres still something up with the manifold.

maybe the gasket??? some ideas or info on that. how would i ID if that was the culprit?

has any of your 06 exhaust manifold cracked?

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post #14 of 50 Old 10-12-2010, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gebirgziege View Post
if you are take care of it... I unfortunately well, i guess fortunately... am my jeep's warranty.

Been trying to, believe me...

Almost through month 2 of waiting on a cat.
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post #15 of 50 Old 10-12-2010, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gebirgziege View Post
so which one is in this pic?..........
It's the BOSAL one at the bottom of the page. I'm probably going with a complete new system deleting the 3rd cat since it has no sensors to set off CELs but, dreading the fight with the AEV/Nth TT to do it.

For those who have fought for it, FREEDOM has a taste that the protected will never know."

'03 Rubicon w/a few changes.
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