Clutch not fully disengaging - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 16 Old 08-26-2014, 07:19 AM Thread Starter
SHoppe715
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Clutch not fully disengaging

Question up front: I know I need to replace my noisy TOB, but could it also be causing these other problems? I hate replacing good parts if I don't have to, but a new pressure plate and pilot bearing really isn't that much more to do if I've dropped the trans already....

Info:
2006 LJ Rubicon
110k miles
Clutch and TOB replaced at ~70k
Trans fluid changed every 30k miles
Slave and master recently replaced - symptoms existed before and after with no change.
Launches smooth, drives fine, but shifts a little stiff.

The issue I'm having is that the clutch won't fully disengage when the pedal is depressed. Most obvious at a stop when putting it into gear. I can feel the synchros grabbing and sending a jolt through the driveline and have to almost force it into gear. In 4lo it'll actually move the jeep before it's in gear.

Sometimes while driving or at a stop with foot off pedal a can hear a ticking / clattering noise which goes away when pedal is pressed. (Definitely TOB noise)

When I shut the engine off with foot off clutch pedal, there's an obvious clattering sound. No sound if I shut it off with pedal pressed.

I'm 99% sure the sticking slave/master I just replaced is what fried the TOB. Just need to know if a bad TOB can cause all those problems or if I should just bite the bullet and replace everything else too.


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post #2 of 16 Old 08-26-2014, 07:46 AM Thread Starter
SHoppe715
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After searching other threads an forums, let me clarify:

Pressing down clutch pedal = disengaging clutch.
Releasing clutch pedal = engaging clutch.

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post #3 of 16 Old 08-26-2014, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
SHoppe715
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I'm fairly sure the pilot is fine because the noises only happen with clutch engaged. Not sure if I can rule out trans input bearing, though...

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post #4 of 16 Old 08-07-2019, 08:00 PM
joe5speed
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did you ever find a solution? I have the exact same problem with failure to fully release. sometimes its worse then others and I have been the entire route. new everything including the trans itself amd a flywheel.
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post #5 of 16 Old 08-09-2019, 07:56 AM
Goatman#1
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Two ideas.
1. Pilot bearing is not installed deep enough and pinching input shaft. This is what someone finally discovered after many attempts to solve.
2. Some have two different possible pilot bearings. They would look sort of stacked on the crank of both were installed at the same time. Measure the depth of the input shaft in relation to the bell housing to determine proper depth of pilot bearing.
One other obvious issue is if throw out bearing is installed backwards .
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post #6 of 16 Old 02-23-2020, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
SHoppe715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe5speed View Post
did you ever find a solution? I have the exact same problem with failure to fully release. sometimes its worse then others and I have been the entire route. new everything including the trans itself amd a flywheel.
To be embarrassingly honest, I’ve been driving it that way ever since my original post. Hasn’t gotten any worse...or better, lol. The Jeep has been my daily driver and sees about 95% highway miles. That’s about to change as I get a new DD and build the LJ. I’m going to replace the flywheel, clutch, and TOB seeing as it now has about 110k miles on the clutch and 180k on the flywheel. It’s all still working fine minus the stated issue, but I feel with the big build that it’s time now before it goes south. I’ll repost after it’s done but that might be a few months from now.

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post #7 of 16 Old 02-23-2020, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatman#1 View Post
Two ideas.
1. Pilot bearing is not installed deep enough and pinching input shaft. This is what someone finally discovered after many attempts to solve.
2. Some have two different possible pilot bearings. They would look sort of stacked on the crank of both were installed at the same time. Measure the depth of the input shaft in relation to the bell housing to determine proper depth of pilot bearing.
One other obvious issue is if throw out bearing is installed backwards .
Pilot bearing dragging on the shaft is what I’ve been thinking the problem is. I figured it may be age/wear related, but installation depth makes sense too.

They say TJ flywheels almost never warp and to just scuff it up with emory cloth when replacing the clutch. I wonder if a slightly warped or hot-spotted flywheel might also cause the same issues. I know they can’t simply be turned like a flat flywheel and there’s a local shop that claims to have the right specs to turn these, but I’m thinking with so many miles and the fact that I’ve towed a 3000lb trailer across the country twice now on PCS moves, I’ll just replace it for peace of mind.

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post #8 of 16 Old 02-23-2020, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Last thought....there was a TSB on these that simply changed the length of the slave cylinder push rod by about 1/4”. When I replaced the master/slave assembly in 2013~ish (bought at O’Reilly’s) it came with a new push rod and I can only assume the new rod was the new length. IIRC, the TSB was due to TOB noise and “improper preload”. I don’t see how it could since the master/slave stroke length wouldn’t be affected, but I’m wondering if the length of the push rod could somehow also cause a similar problem. Just brainstorming....

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post #9 of 16 Old 04-19-2020, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Update - fixed.

I just had the clutch and flywheel replaced - picked it up yesterday and it was still doing it and the pedal felt strangely soft. The mechanic said it was the throw out bearing being old and sticky, but it had been behaving that way for like 80,000+ miles getting no better or worse. It wasn’t really Too bad so I just drove it that way (yeah, yeah...) Then this morning it was Un-driveable because the clutch wasn’t releasing. With the soft pedal I decided to try and bleed the master/slave and realized the slave was sucking air. So my final thought is I probably didn’t fully bench bleed the master/slave when I installed them in October of 2013 and running it that way for 6 1/2 years and something like 80,000 miles it finally died of old age when trying to push on the new stiff clutch springs.

“How do I remember the timeframe with such precision” you ask...well I found the receipt - miraculously - and got them replaced by warranty at O’Reilly’s. (Interesting issue with the new slave, but that’s for another thread.)

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post #10 of 16 Old 05-07-2020, 10:01 AM
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My 05 is rumbling at idle. Stepping on the clutch makes it go away. I thought it was a main shaft bearing, it could well be, but after consulting several transmission shops I've been told the TO bearing is bad. As for a clutch not disengaging all the way or the vehicle starting to creep at a light with it in gear and clutch in it could be the TO bearing too but it's more likely the master cylinder leaking internally. If the master leaks internally you won't notice a fluid leak. If your going to pull the trans do the whole 9 yards including the master cylinder.

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post #11 of 16 Old 05-07-2020, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyDog1 View Post
If your going to pull the trans do the whole 9 yards including the master cylinder.
I think if the master was leaking internally is would slowly engage the clutch while sitting still with the pedal pressed. My case was probably an air bubble the whole time but the slave finally gave out when it was pushing on the new clutch so I replaced both slave and master together. With an external slave, I don’t see a reason to replace it if it’s still good just because of replacing the clutch. If the slave was internal, I’d definitely replace it too just because. But the cylinders are so easy to replace and it doesn’t require the transmission to be separated from the engine, I wouldn’t toss out a good one until you know it’s toast.

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post #12 of 16 Old 05-07-2020, 01:30 PM
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A leaking master cylinder would not cause the clutch to slowly engage, it would cause it to not fully disengage. It would be bleeding off fluid and pressure preventing full stroke of the slave cylinder.

Your mechanic should have been able to diagnose a hydraulic issue within minutes instead of replacing the whole clutch. And then blaming the TOB afterwards makes no sense because new TOB's come in the clutch kit (and if they don't, any mechanic would buy one separately).



Regarding the transmission noise, a bad throw out bearing is noisy (or more noisy) when the pedal is pressed, not the other way around. The TOB is always spinning when the engine is running, but bearings make noise when they are heavily loaded.

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post #13 of 16 Old 05-07-2020, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
SHoppe715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjp View Post
A leaking master cylinder would not cause the clutch to slowly engage, it would cause it to not fully disengage. It would be bleeding off fluid and pressure preventing full stroke of the slave cylinder.

Your mechanic should have been able to diagnose a hydraulic issue within minutes instead of replacing the whole clutch.
The clutch was toast....it had over 110,000 miles on it. The not fully disengaging issue was minor and consistent for a couple years. So minor it didn’t cause any drivability issues so I just ignored it. I got about 80,000 miles out of that master/slave assembly and O’Reilly’s gave me a new one under warranty.

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post #14 of 16 Old 05-07-2020, 05:26 PM
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Had the same problem wit a 3 yo clutch I thought it was the slave cylinder so I replaced it and it didn't make a difference so I dropped it by my mechanic. when he pulled the transmission and the plastic throw-out bearing housing had exploded. It may take some searching but Luk makes 2 different rebuild kits 1 with a plastic throw out cage 1 with a metal one. It took a little effort but my mechanic was able to find me one with the meal cage and I haven't had any trouble since.
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post #15 of 16 Old 05-08-2020, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobjp View Post
A leaking master cylinder would not cause the clutch to slowly engage, it would cause it to not fully disengage. It would be bleeding off fluid and pressure preventing full stroke of the slave cylinder.
Not to get into a p***ing match here but I just sold a YJ and the master cyl was at fault for a slow engage, foot on the clutch and in gear, so as pressure is lost so the clutch starts to engage. I would have to pop it into neutral and pump it up again to get full clutch. Just saying, that was the fix for my issue.

From the Smoky Mountains of Western North Carolina
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