ATF-3 vs. ATF-4 - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 19 Old 05-14-2009, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
lcarr
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ATF-3 vs. ATF-4

Hello,
I just purchased a few quarts of ATF-4 for a 2000 wrangler. Manual calls for ATF-3. To avoid a trip back to the auto parts store, can I still use it or will I be paying for a new tranny down the road? I don't know how many speeds it has, just automatic tranny.

Thanks.

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post #2 of 19 Old 05-14-2009, 05:55 PM
tangofox007
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ATF+4 superseded +3. You probably won't find any +3 if you look for it.
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post #3 of 19 Old 05-14-2009, 06:03 PM
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ATF+4 is all you need.
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post #4 of 19 Old 05-15-2009, 05:26 AM
Neil F.
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+4 is now the recommended fluid. +3 came up to 00. The transmission isn't going to self destruct if it has +3 in it. +4 was designed to perform better over a longer peroid. From allpar:

The goal in developing ATF+4 was to create a fluid that would match the performance characteristics of the current fluid (Type 7176D), but would retain those characteristics for at least 100,000 miles. The paper specifically notes that the anti-shudder properties of ATF+3 are usually degraded enough by 30,000 miles to cause noticeable shudder.

Contrary to popular myth, one of the stated goals of Type 9602/ATF+4 fluids was that it'd have the same frictional characteristics as ATF+3. The paper explicitly states that this was because new clutch materials wouldn't be introduced for this fluid and it had to be backwards compatible with ATF+3. Graphs in the paper show that the friction coefficient of fresh ATF+3 and ATF+4 is essentially identical, but as the fluid ages ATF+4 retains the “as new” coefficient while ATF+3 degrades.

Date: March 16, 2004 Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage ATF+4 (Type 9602)

THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-006-01, DATED JUNE 29, 2001.

Models: 1989 - 1993 (AD) Ram Truck, 1994 - 2003 (BR/BE) Ram Truck, 2002 - 2004 (DR) Ram Truck

1989 - 1995 (AA) Spirit/Acclaim/Lebaron Sedan
1989 - 2003 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
1989 - 1993 (AC) Dynasty/New Yorker/New Yorker Salon
1989 - 1993 (AD) Ram Truck
1989 - 1994 (AG) Daytona
1989 (AH) Lancer/Lebaron GTS
1989 - 1995 (AJ) Lebaron Coupe/Lebaron Convertible
1989 - 1990 (AK) Aries/Reliant
1989 - 1990 (AL) Horizon/Omni
1989 (AM) Diplomat/Gran Fury/New Yorker fifth Avenue
1989 - 2004 (AN) Dakota
1989 - 1994 (AP) Shadow/Sundance
1990 - 1991 (AQ) Maserati
1990 - 1993 (AY) Imperial/New Yorker Fifth Avenue
1994 - 2003 (BR/BE) Ram Truck
2004 - 2005 (CS) Pacifica
1998 - 2003 (DN) Durango
2002 - 2004 (DR) Ram Truck
1995 - 2000 (FJ) Sebring/Avenger/Talon
2000 (GS) Chrysler Voyager (International Market)
2004 (HB) Durango
1995 - 2000 (JA) Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze
2001- 2004 (JR) Sebring Sedan & Convertible/Stratus Sedan
1996 - 2000 (JX) Sebring Convertible
2002 - 2004 (KJ) Liberty
1993 - 2004 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid/Vision/LHS/New Yorker /300M
2005 (LX) Chrysler 300/Magnum
2000 (NS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
1995 - 2004 (PL) Neon
2002 - 2003 (PG) PT Cruiser (International Markets)
2001 - 2005 (PT) PT Cruiser
1997 - 2002 (PR) Prowler
2001 - 2005 (RG) Chrysler Voyager (International Markets)
2001 - 2005 (RS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
1997 - 2004 (TJ) Wrangler
2001 - 2004 (WG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
1999 - 2004 (WJ) Grand Cherokee
1989 - 1995 (YJ) Wrangler
1996 - 1998 (ZG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
1994 - 1998 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee/Grand Wagoneer

NOTE: This bulletin applies to all transmissions manufactured by Chrysler except for 1999 and earlier minivans with the 41TE/AE transmission, This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to all AW-4 transmissions, Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions and WG bodies equipped with a W5J400 or NAG1 transmission (sales code DGJ).

Discussion:
A new transmission fluid (ATF+4 - Type 9602) has been developed and is being used as factory fill for all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions.It's recommended that all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions EXCEPT FOR THOSE LISTED ABOVE be serviced with ATF+4.

NOTE: ATF+4 must always be used in vehicles that were originally filled with ATF+4.

NOTE: Service intervals don't change. The service interval currently in effect for a given vehicle should continue to be followed.

NOTE: ATF+4 is compatible with ATF+3 and ATF+2. ATF+4 can be used to top off vehicles that currently have ATF+2 or ATF+3. Don't use ATF+2 or ATF+3 to top off vehicles that have ATF+4 fluid.

BENEFITS

Better anti-wear properties
Improved rust/corrosion prevention
Controls oxidation
Eliminates deposits
Controls friction
Retains anti-foaming properties
Superior properties for low temperature operation
FLUID COLOR

Mopar ATF+4T is a World Class Fluid having exceptional durability. However, the red dye used in ATF+4T isn't permanent; as the fluid ages it may become darker or appear brown in color. ATF+4T also has a unique odor that may change with age. With ATF+4T fluid, color and odor are no longer indicators of fluid condition and don't support a fluid change.
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post #5 of 19 Old 06-23-2009, 07:09 PM
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Is there any reason not to use synthetic ATF+4 in the NP231? Or is it all synthetic?

I bought a some Valvoline for my XJ, despite the auto parts store guy's warning of certain death if you switch from dino to synthetic ATF+4.

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post #6 of 19 Old 06-23-2009, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
Is there any reason not to use synthetic ATF+4 in the NP231? Or is it all synthetic?

I bought a some Valvoline for my XJ, despite the auto parts store guy's warning of certain death if you switch from dino to synthetic ATF+4.
That auto parts store guy warning was wrong, dino and synthetic ATF+4 fluids are actually totally compatible with each other. You can switch back & forth without problem, as often as you want. Those auto parts store counter guys kill me, they always try to come off like an expert but few are... which is why they only work in an auto parts store.

And unlike automatic transmissions, the NP231 is not fussy in the least about the type of ATF it gets. It's happy with pretty much any good quality ATF, synthetic or dino/mineral-based.

When you have a choice, buy American made.
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post #7 of 19 Old 06-23-2009, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
That auto parts store guy warning was wrong, dino and synthetic ATF+4 fluids are actually totally compatible with each other. You can switch back & forth without problem, as much as you want. Those auto parts guys kill me, they always try to come off like an expert but few are... which is why they only work in an auto parts store.

And unlike automatic transmissions, the NP231 is not fussy in the least about the type of ATF it gets. It's happy with pretty much any good quality ATF, synthetic or dino/mineral-based.
Jerry, at any time, did they recommend any other lube for the NP231? Seemed like I recall them doing that at some point but can't remember.

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post #8 of 19 Old 06-23-2009, 07:17 PM
Jerry Bransford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepguy1977 View Post
Jerry, at any time, did they recommend any other lube for the NP231? Seemed like I recall them doing that at some point but can't remember.
Nope, the 231 has always used ATF.

When you have a choice, buy American made.
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post #9 of 19 Old 06-23-2009, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
Nope, the 231 has always used ATF.
Good to know

At least now I know, that in a pinch, it doesn't matter what ATF it gets

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post #10 of 19 Old 06-23-2009, 09:49 PM
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Thanks. Looks like the ATF+4 is supposed to last much longer too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepguy1977 View Post
Jerry, at any time, did they recommend any other lube for the NP231? Seemed like I recall them doing that at some point but can't remember.
The FSM says Dextron II or ATF+3

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post #11 of 19 Old 06-23-2009, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
The FSM says Dextron II or ATF+3
Get a newer FSM...

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post #12 of 19 Old 06-24-2009, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
The FSM says Dextron II or ATF+3
The FSM only specifies the ATF for the t-case to match the requirement of the automatic transmission of that year. Whatever the transmission requires is what the FSM will say to also use in the transfer case. The tranny is what is fussy about what ATF it gets, not the t-case.

When you have a choice, buy American made.
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post #13 of 19 Old 06-24-2009, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford View Post
The FSM only specifies the ATF for the t-case to match the requirement of the automatic transmission of that year. Whatever the transmission requires is what the FSM will say to also use in the transfer case. The tranny is what is fussy about what ATF it gets, not the t-case.
So what of the ones located behind the manual trannies?

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post #14 of 19 Old 06-24-2009, 04:16 PM
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ATF+4 is what you want to use. The service bulletin has been superseded quite a few times and now includes the AW-4's in the XJ too.

-Dana
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post #15 of 19 Old 06-24-2009, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaJeepTech View Post
ATF+4 is what you want to use. The service bulletin has been superseded quite a few times and now includes the AW-4's in the XJ too.

-Dana
There are a number of folks in the XJ forum who question the wisdom of using ATF+4 in the AW4. They tried it with less than satisfactory results.

Any insight?
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