'98 Sahara opinions - JeepForum.com
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By jeepguy03
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 07-07-2020, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
dln1962
Junior Member
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 60
'98 Sahara opinions

My 2000 SE has been such an ongoing pain in the you-know-what to the extent that I started looking for another one recently. This one popped up on my local CL. It has air/tilt/cruise, aftermarket stereo and speakers, hard and soft tops, full doors, and decent rubber. No lift. Says everything works properly. The guy wants $8K for it but I think I can get him down a little. Says very little rust and none shows in the pics. 4.0l and automatic, 143K miles. The one red flag is that it has a salvage title. He said he did a Carfax on it when he bought it and it was totaled in '01 or '02 due to being in a flood...but has owned it for 8+ years and zero problems, actually got it for his daughter to drive to college. It originally came out of Texas. I know to take a screwdriver and peck around on the frame when (if) I go look at it. I'll try to attach some pics.

What do you think?

Attached Images
         
dln1962 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 07-07-2020, 12:24 PM
mukluk
Web Wheeler
 
mukluk's Avatar
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Clyde
Posts: 6,105
I feel $8k is too much for a '98 Jeep with a salvage title, no matter how nice it looks. More realistic would be about half that at most. My biggest concern with a flood damaged vehicle would be corrosion creeping into all the wiring and electronics.

2000 TJ SE
2005 LJ Rubicon
mukluk is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 07-07-2020, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
dln1962
Junior Member
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 60
Thanks for the reply. Honestly, my enthusiasm for it is waning somewhat. TJ's are stupid high here though, there's one guy with an '01 with 155,000 on it, has a 3" lift and 33-12.50's and not much else who is asking $20K.

I doubt that he'll come down close to $4K...I'll wait and see if it stays up for awhile but I bet somebody offers him like $7,200 cash for it by the end of the week. Guess I will keep working on my problem child...I wanted to do a full build on it but I wanted to do it over the winter, not one bit at a time.
dln1962 is offline  
 
post #4 of 14 Old 07-07-2020, 06:06 PM
TheBoogieman
Distubed Jeepaholic
 
TheBoogieman's Avatar
2003 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: charlottesHELL
Posts: 40,549
Pass on anything with a salvage title unless it's dirt cheap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinmichguy_ View Post
TheBoogieman is a jerk.
GOT IT BACK 6/17. 03' Rubicon/Zone 4.25" combo lift with 4" lift coils up front/Zone hydro shocks/5.13 gears/35" Mickey Thompson MTZ P3 tires/Black Magic brakes. Jeep #17 & 19.
TheBoogieman is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 07-07-2020, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
dln1962
Junior Member
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 60
I spoke to him again and he said it was a "rebuilt" title rather than salvage, and a '99 instead of a '98. My insurance carrier won't underwrite a salvage title vehicle more than 20 years old. If it was less than that, they told me that I could have it inspected and if it passed they would cover it.

I'm guessing a rebuilt title is in the same category as salvage...I'll call my agent again tomorrow and ask just for the hell of it but I'm thinking that $8K is really a good bit too much for anything other than a clean title.

If it was cheap enough I'd just use it as a donor for my wore-out TJ and junk whatever was left over. That would side-step the insurance issues as I have a decent body, and frame, tires, and brakes but unfortunately just about nothing else
dln1962 is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 07-09-2020, 06:51 AM
RedBolide
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 60
As others said, it's not worth it. I used to work in a shop that rebuilt flood cars. They are notorious for having random electrical issues and hard-to-find spots of rust. I'd honestly consider sending your TJ to a shop and having them sort out the major issues for you. It might be pricey, but once everything is handled, you should get a lot of trouble free miles. Plus, TJs are getting crazy expensive, so fixing yours would be a fraction of the cost of getting another one. Good luck!

'03 Wrangler Sport / '98 Grand Cherokee Laredo / '90 Comanche Eliminator
RedBolide is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 07-09-2020, 08:06 AM
Strangers
Registered User
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: HARRISONBURG
Posts: 85
I wonder if the seller is hedging the bet.....got it on the cheap, has used it and now wants to make a killin' on the mark (you). tell the guy that his Jeep is what it is (I call them done over), if the price is realistic for what it is, buy and between the two have one and a yard sale. Outside of that keep wha' cha got.

Me, Banditt, Tippie and ole Heep a long!
RIP Banditt 3/86 - 11/01
Strangers is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 07-09-2020, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
dln1962
Junior Member
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangers View Post
I wonder if the seller is hedging the bet.....got it on the cheap, has used it and now wants to make a killin' on the mark (you). tell the guy that his Jeep is what it is (I call them done over), if the price is realistic for what it is, buy and between the two have one and a yard sale. Outside of that keep wha' cha got.
He says he is the 3rd owner and has had it since 2011. Easy enough to check via the VIN so no point in him spinning a tale. Claims the guy before him only owned it 3 years and went to TX to get it, which is where he said the Carfax reported it totaled in a flood. Said he had his daughter commuting to college in it, which if true I would think he'd have to feel pretty confident about the reliability, but who knows what the real story is.

If I could buy it cheap enough I would just use it as a donor for mine, I have the 4-banger and 5-speed and would really prefer the 4.0l and automatic. I'll see if it stays listed for awhile and then maybe low-ball him and see how he reacts to that. Unless somebody grabs it to use for an off-road only build, which is definitely a possibility. In the meantime I'll go ahead with my plans to put a donor 4.2l Vortec and the rest of the driveline out of a totaled '09 Envoy I have in my old SE...just because I like to be different. I don't like JK's or I'd just trade and be done with it...and yes TJ's are crazy high here too, everybody seems to want one.

Thanks for the replies.

Last edited by dln1962; 07-09-2020 at 10:16 AM. Reason: spelling/punctuation
dln1962 is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 07-09-2020, 10:46 AM
jeepguy03
Winning
 
jeepguy03's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Storrs
Posts: 6,474
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dln1962 View Post
He says he is the 3rd owner and has had it since 2011. Easy enough to check via the VIN so no point in him spinning a tale. Claims the guy before him only owned it 3 years and went to TX to get it, which is where he said the Carfax reported it totaled in a flood. Said he had his daughter commuting to college in it, which if true I would think he'd have to feel pretty confident about the reliability, but who knows what the real story is.

If I could buy it cheap enough I would just use it as a donor for mine, I have the 4-banger and 5-speed and would really prefer the 4.0l and automatic. I'll see if it stays listed for awhile and then maybe low-ball him and see how he reacts to that. Unless somebody grabs it to use for an off-road only build, which is definitely a possibility. In the meantime I'll go ahead with my plans to put a donor 4.2l Vortec and the rest of the driveline out of a totaled '09 Envoy I have in my old SE...just because I like to be different. I don't like JK's or I'd just trade and be done with it...and yes TJ's are crazy high here too, everybody seems to want one.

Thanks for the replies.
Not sure you can just "put in" a 4.2L vortec and associated transmission and wiring unless you have some pretty good fabrication and wiring skills. There's a reason V8 swaps cost so much, and it's not because the drive train is expensive to buy.
TheBoogieman likes this.

0331 head swap DIY:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"Build" thread:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Previous: 1990 XJ Limited, 2000 XJ Sport, 2000 XJ Sport
Current: 1998 Wrangler Sahara
jeepguy03 is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 07-10-2020, 05:46 AM Thread Starter
dln1962
Junior Member
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepguy03 View Post
Not sure you can just "put in" a 4.2L vortec and associated transmission and wiring unless you have some pretty good fabrication and wiring skills. There's a reason V8 swaps cost so much, and it's not because the drive train is expensive to buy.
Oh I know it's not going to be a trivial thing to do. Done a lot of homework on this. Ideally would be to find a donor Jeep with a messed-up tub etc and swap my tins onto the frame since the mounts differ between the 2.5l and the 4.0l for reasons probably only known to some AMC engineers who may or may not still be alive. But for whatever reason, they made the mounting scheme totally different between the two, and since I'm probably gonna have to cut off one set of mounts and weld in another, I figure why not make it a little unique? I'm sure somebody else has done it but I doubt 4.2l Vortec swaps are exactly common. Those were good engines, it's too bad GM didn't keep them in production as baseline pickup engines instead of hanging onto the V6.

And I can farm out what little I might not feel confident doing myself. Hopefully that will just be body/paint work, but I know when to holler for help when I get stuck on something.
dln1962 is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 07-10-2020, 05:56 AM
jeepguy03
Winning
 
jeepguy03's Avatar
1998 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Storrs
Posts: 6,474
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by dln1962 View Post
Oh I know it's not going to be a trivial thing to do. Done a lot of homework on this. Ideally would be to find a donor Jeep with a messed-up tub etc and swap my tins onto the frame since the mounts differ between the 2.5l and the 4.0l for reasons probably only known to some AMC engineers who may or may not still be alive. But for whatever reason, they made the mounting scheme totally different between the two, and since I'm probably gonna have to cut off one set of mounts and weld in another, I figure why not make it a little unique? I'm sure somebody else has done it but I doubt 4.2l Vortec swaps are exactly common. Those were good engines, it's too bad GM didn't keep them in production as baseline pickup engines instead of hanging onto the V6.

And I can farm out what little I might not feel confident doing myself. Hopefully that will just be body/paint work, but I know when to holler for help when I get stuck on something.
Not trying to rain on your parade, but I can tell you that welding in new mounts onto your 2.5L frame for a 4.0L will be MUCH easier than putting a 4.2L Vortec in there. The wiring, transmission and engine mounts, cooling system, and lots of other stuff will need to be fabricated for an engine that really isn't very spectacular.

The ease of installation goes like this:

-4.0L/Ax-15 swap
-4.6L stroker
-5.3L or 350 Chevy V8 (just from an aftermarket support standpoint)
-4.2L vortec

Aside from the 4.0, any of the above swaps will cost you a pretty penny in modifications and time. It would actually be more cost effective to buy that 1998 Sahara and fix any flood damage if it even has it. I see "flood damage" and it sounds bad, but think of the water people drive their TJ's through off road. Worst case on a TJ is the PCM got swamped, and it would be pretty easy to tell and swap it out if it was bad.

0331 head swap DIY:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"Build" thread:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Previous: 1990 XJ Limited, 2000 XJ Sport, 2000 XJ Sport
Current: 1998 Wrangler Sahara
jeepguy03 is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 07-10-2020, 10:00 AM
wildman4x4nut
Web Wheeler
 
wildman4x4nut's Avatar
1997 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Cle Elum
Posts: 1,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by dln1962 View Post
Oh I know it's not going to be a trivial thing to do. Done a lot of homework on this. Ideally would be to find a donor Jeep with a messed-up tub etc and swap my tins onto the frame since the mounts differ between the 2.5l and the 4.0l for reasons probably only known to some AMC engineers who may or may not still be alive. But for whatever reason, they made the mounting scheme totally different between the two, and since I'm probably gonna have to cut off one set of mounts and weld in another, I figure why not make it a little unique? I'm sure somebody else has done it but I doubt 4.2l Vortec swaps are exactly common. Those were good engines, it's too bad GM didn't keep them in production as baseline pickup engines instead of hanging onto the V6.

And I can farm out what little I might not feel confident doing myself. Hopefully that will just be body/paint work, but I know when to holler for help when I get stuck on something.
For the amount of work to try and swap in a 4.0 6cyl you could of had a V-8.

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/w...ssion-1365878/

Even if you live some place that doesn't do emission testing by Federal Emissions laws you have to use the same year or newer engine to swap into your vehicle.
Swapping in a GM engine is a lot more work then it is to do a Dodge magnum V-8 swap. If you are serious about any type of engine swap make sure you do a lot of research prior to jumping in.

WILDMAN

Cle Elum, WA

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
wildman4x4nut is online now  
post #13 of 14 Old 07-10-2020, 10:47 AM
RedBolide
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by dln1962 View Post
Oh I know it's not going to be a trivial thing to do. Done a lot of homework on this. Ideally would be to find a donor Jeep with a messed-up tub etc and swap my tins onto the frame since the mounts differ between the 2.5l and the 4.0l for reasons probably only known to some AMC engineers who may or may not still be alive. But for whatever reason, they made the mounting scheme totally different between the two, and since I'm probably gonna have to cut off one set of mounts and weld in another, I figure why not make it a little unique? I'm sure somebody else has done it but I doubt 4.2l Vortec swaps are exactly common. Those were good engines, it's too bad GM didn't keep them in production as baseline pickup engines instead of hanging onto the V6.

And I can farm out what little I might not feel confident doing myself. Hopefully that will just be body/paint work, but I know when to holler for help when I get stuck on something.
People are gonna tell you "why not just put in a V8," but I think it's a great idea. It's not going to be easy, but quite frankly I think a Wrangler is a better fit than those damn Trailblazers/Envoys. GM made a great engine, then made it a real pain to work on by cramming it into a packed engine bay. I think it's a great idea. If you go forward with it, post some updates! I'd love to see the project.

'03 Wrangler Sport / '98 Grand Cherokee Laredo / '90 Comanche Eliminator
RedBolide is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 07-16-2020, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
dln1962
Junior Member
2000 TJ Wrangler 
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildman4x4nut View Post
For the amount of work to try and swap in a 4.0 6cyl you could of had a V-8.

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/w...ssion-1365878/

Even if you live some place that doesn't do emission testing by Federal Emissions laws you have to use the same year or newer engine to swap into your vehicle.
Swapping in a GM engine is a lot more work then it is to do a Dodge magnum V-8 swap. If you are serious about any type of engine swap make sure you do a lot of research prior to jumping in.
Emissions testing is local-option here; I don't have it where I live yet but it could become a thing. With a 2000 Jeep and a 2008 donor, it shouldn't be a problem. Novak makes the necessary electronics to interface the GM brain box with the Jeep PCM and make everything work. And from what I've been able to discover, installing the 4.2l mounts would be about the same as installing the 4.0l ones. One guy even said he thought that the 4.0 mounts could be modified for the Vortec I6. And yeah, I know there will be fabrication, I'm not expecting plug-and-play here and anything I can't do myself, I know people who can and who owe me favors. As far as V8 swaps go, well (1.) I have the donor; I own it. I bought it when I was thinking of freshening up a Trailblazer I owned at the time. That one has since gone down the road (granddaughter was in a pinch and needing a reliable vehicle that would go in snow) so it's at odd ends now. I'd have to acquire a donor for a V8 swap of whatever brand, and as far as Dodge pickups go, in my neck of the woods if it is fairly complete, newer than 2000, and doesn't have half a million miles on it, it's pretty pricey. All pickup are that way here. The 4.2l donor was totaled in a hail storm and has IIRC about 75K on it. And (2.) I keep hearing about overheating issues with V8's. That's a big concern for me; I don't want to have to do a lot of fiddling with this thing once I get it together and dialed-in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBolide View Post
People are gonna tell you "why not just put in a V8," but I think it's a great idea. It's not going to be easy, but quite frankly I think a Wrangler is a better fit than those damn Trailblazers/Envoys. GM made a great engine, then made it a real pain to work on by cramming it into a packed engine bay. I think it's a great idea. If you go forward with it, post some updates! I'd love to see the project.
I appreciate the vote of confidence. I like to take a different path than the masses sometimes and I agree with you in re both the 4.2 being a pretty decent engine and how big a PITA it is to work on in the GMT360 chassis. I always wondered why they didn't keep it as a base full-size pickup engine. Being as this is just an old man's toy and not a daily driver that I would depend on, I can't see a problem with making it something a little out of the ordinary. And since the only things I typically farm out as far as service goes are suspension/alignment and body work, it's not like it will turn up at the Quik-Lube and leave some HS dropout scratching his head...
dln1962 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome