2 piece manifold swap does not work - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 36 Old 05-15-2015, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
BamaJeepman21
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2 piece manifold swap does not work

I had the cracked manifold like many people before me. I read the advice on here and switched to the newer style 2 piece exhaust.

It does not work

Now Knucklehead, since I know you'll be reading this , here's what I have found:

1. I used a 2002 manifold
2. I used a 2002 gasket

The gasket does not cover the 98 ports. I was leaking from all 6 cylinders when they pulled the manifold off. The ports from 2000+ are all the exact same, there were no changes during the 2001 head problems. Going on:

1. The 2000 and 2002 gaskets are both the exact same meaning the manifolds are the same

2. The 1998 gasket does not cover the 2000+ manifold ports

Whoever has done this swap either doesn't know it won't work because they're confusing the exhaust leak tick for lifters or they're doing something entirely different than me. All I have found out is that there will ALWAYS be a gap between the manifold and head.

Right now, I have no idea what to do. I'm **** out of luck. I have the new style Y pipe so I can't go back to the other design without replacing that as well.

I've attached pictures of the 1998 gasket on the newer style manifold.






As you can see, the gasket obviously does not match up. Keep in mind I had a 2002 gasket on there that was leaking from all 6 ports.


-Jack
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post #2 of 36 Old 05-15-2015, 07:38 PM
MisfitSeven
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But...but...this is the upgrade.

You didn't do it right!
Everyone ELSE must be wrong, right?

Lol

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post #3 of 36 Old 05-15-2015, 10:45 PM
Knuckelhead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaJeepman21 View Post
As you can see, the gasket obviously does not match up. Keep in mind I had a 2002 gasket on there that was leaking from all 6 ports.
I don't know what to tell you, I helped a member on another forum install a 2000+ manifold (with the 2000 gasket) on his 1997 with no issues...

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post #4 of 36 Old 05-15-2015, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
BamaJeepman21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisfitSeven View Post
But...but...this is the upgrade.

You didn't do it right!
Everyone ELSE must be wrong, right?

Lol
Look all I'm saying is that either gasket doesn't match up right. Since it was leaking out of all ports, there's no way someone else hasn't experienced this. I'll take better pictures when I go back on Monday of both setups and it'll be clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckelhead View Post
I don't know what to tell you, I helped a member on another forum install a 2000+ manifold (with the 2000 gasket) on his 1997 with no issues...
Not sure if he's local or if you still keep up with him, but could you ask him to take pictures below the ports on the manifold and inspect for soot?

-Jack
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post #5 of 36 Old 05-16-2015, 12:31 AM
Knuckelhead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaJeepman21 View Post
Not sure if he's local or if you still keep up with him, but could you ask him to take pictures below the ports on the manifold and inspect for soot?
He is/was local, but after helping him with his effort I PCS'd (2010) and came back after retiring. I was in touch with him for about 3 years and then had no more contact.

This is all I have to offer from the install:




...HTH

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post #6 of 36 Old 05-16-2015, 01:40 AM
joe_jeep
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are the manifolds over the dowells correctly?

glfwda #6624
2005 rubicon sahara lj #592
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post #7 of 36 Old 05-16-2015, 01:57 AM
Knuckelhead
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Originally Posted by joe_jeep View Post
are the manifolds over the dowells correctly?
That's what I was thinking...

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post #8 of 36 Old 05-16-2015, 10:01 AM
jose_p_adams
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The gasket for the 1 pièce manifold doesn't work with the 2 piece manifold. I found that out the hard way. No one would think that the amount of leakage I had was ok. When I looked up from the bottom I could see the cylinders light up when they fired. I replaced the gasket with one made for a 2 piece and it solved the issue. The gasket for the 2 piece is completely different. It is made out of metal instead of paper and it has the right shape for the exhaust port holes. IIRC it was 2-3x the price. I'm not sure if they changed the shape of the exhaust ports on the heads they used or not but I would guess they didn't because the gasket is so much more robust. Regardless my 97 is working fine with a 2001 manifold.
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post #9 of 36 Old 05-16-2015, 10:27 AM
Jeepster83
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Based on your pics I'd say it's just a simple gasket issue like jose stated. Keep the later manifold but use the proper 2-piece gasket.

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post #10 of 36 Old 05-16-2015, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_jeep View Post
are the manifolds over the dowells correctly?
Will check on Monday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jose_p_adams View Post
The gasket for the 1 pièce manifold doesn't work with the 2 piece manifold. I found that out the hard way. No one would think that the amount of leakage I had was ok. When I looked up from the bottom I could see the cylinders light up when they fired. I replaced the gasket with one made for a 2 piece and it solved the issue. The gasket for the 2 piece is completely different. It is made out of metal instead of paper and it has the right shape for the exhaust port holes. IIRC it was 2-3x the price. I'm not sure if they changed the shape of the exhaust ports on the heads they used or not but I would guess they didn't because the gasket is so much more robust. Regardless my 97 is working fine with a 2001 manifold.
Right. But like I said, I was using a 2000+ gasket and it was entirely too small for the engine ports since the newer manifold ports are alot smaller. This is interesting though, I was using a Felpro 2000+ gasket for the first one. It was paper/metal and very clearly showed leakage on the bottom of all 6 ports. Now the gasket was still in good shape. Not torn or anything. Yesterday, thinking I had originally used a 2000 gasket and there might be something different between '00 and '02, I went and bought a Felpro 2002 gasket. Same part number and all but when I opened it today, it's a full metal gasket compared to the paper one.

So when I swing by I'll put that one up against the others and see if there's a difference.

-Jack
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post #11 of 36 Old 05-16-2015, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaJeepman21
Will check on Monday. Right. But like I said, I was using a 2000+ gasket and it was entirely too small for the engine ports since the newer manifold ports are alot smaller. This is interesting though, I was using a Felpro 2000+ gasket for the first one. It was paper/metal and very clearly showed leakage on the bottom of all 6 ports. Now the gasket was still in good shape. Not torn or anything. Yesterday, thinking I had originally used a 2000 gasket and there might be something different between '00 and '02, I went and bought a Felpro 2002 gasket. Same part number and all but when I opened it today, it's a full metal gasket compared to the paper one. So when I swing by I'll put that one up against the others and see if there's a difference.
I researched a little and it looks like the exhaust ports in the heads changed through the years. The ports got smaller and were more closely matched to the exhaust manifolds used. I know that the seal for my manifold is relying on the robustness of the metal gasket. It is holding up so far but I don't have much run time on it. Perhaps It will fail prematurely. Only time will tell.
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post #12 of 36 Old 05-16-2015, 12:36 PM
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And having looked closer at this I am significantly less confident that what I have will stand the test of time.
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post #13 of 36 Old 05-16-2015, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jose_p_adams View Post
I researched a little and it looks like the exhaust ports in the heads changed through the years. The ports got smaller and were more closely matched to the exhaust manifolds used. I know that the seal for my manifold is relying on the robustness of the metal gasket. It is holding up so far but I don't have much run time on it. Perhaps It will fail prematurely. Only time will tell.
So, I'm technically not wrong. Here's a picture of a Felpro 93094 (2000+) on a '96-'99 head.



The problem is clear. Like Jose said, the swap relies on how well the gasket holds up. Without all of it in front of me I can't see how bad the clearance is though.

-Jack
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post #14 of 36 Old 05-16-2015, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Here's what I've decided to do:

I bought another set of manifolds that appear to be in better shape than mine just in case that could be causing the problem. I'm going to take an abrasive pad/cleaner to the head and manifolds to make sure everything is as clean as possible. I'm going to use both '98 and '00+ metal gaskets, get some high temp rtv, seal them together, and torque it down. Hopefully that will create enough seal to hold it in for awhile.

-Jack
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post #15 of 36 Old 05-16-2015, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepster83 View Post
Keep the later manifold but use the proper 2-piece gasket.
No TJ 4.0L used a 2-piece exhaust/intake manifold gasket...

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