Wiring Manifold Heater Question - JeepForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 Old 01-03-2017, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
cdt540
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Austin
Posts: 301
Wiring Manifold Heater Question

I am undoing some PO wiring hacks and wiring up my manifold heater, just want to make sure my understanding of what goes where is correct. Coming out of the relay, the green goes to the thermal switch at the rear of the intake manifold. The orange goes to the heater. The small red wire goes to the choke and the big red wire is the main power source. Additionally the red wire from the oil pressure switch goes to the choke and connects with the red from the relay with a connector similar to attached pic. Does that seem correct?

Also the thermal switch is removed and plugged so I will be replacing the switch. Does it have direct access to coolant? Meaning when I pull the plug to install the switch will coolant leak out?

Thanks for any feedback....

Chris

Attached Images
 

Chris
'83 CJ7 (258 5 spd)
Austin, TX
cdt540 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 01-03-2017, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
cdt540
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Austin
Posts: 301
Follow up

I just located the attached doc that indicates the wire from the oil pressure switch ties into the red wire from the relay before the 6 pin connector so the second wire red wire that was connected to the choke is not needed because it went to the diagnostic port which has been removed. Does this seem correct?

Also, does my choke still work without the thermal temp switch missing or is the switch only used for controlling the manifold heater?

Thanks again...

Chris
Attached Thumbnails
EChoke.jpg  

Chris
'83 CJ7 (258 5 spd)
Austin, TX
cdt540 is offline  
post #3 of 16 Old 01-03-2017, 03:03 PM
Matt1981CJ7
Web Wheeler
 
Matt1981CJ7's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elbert
Posts: 22,115
The choke works independently of the manifold temp switch. Actually the choke doesn't even need to go thru the relay. It can be wired directly from the oil pressure switch.

Perhaps this diagram (credit to Jeephammer) will help.

Matt
Attached Thumbnails
MainfoldHeater1.jpg  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Matt1981CJ7 is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 Old 01-03-2017, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
cdt540
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Austin
Posts: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
The choke works independently of the manifold temp switch. Actually the choke doesn't even need to go thru the relay. It can be wired directly from the oil pressure switch.

Perhaps this diagram (credit to Jeephammer) will help.

Matt
Was there supposed to be an attachment or is the one I attached Jeephammer's?

Thanks

Chris
'83 CJ7 (258 5 spd)
Austin, TX
cdt540 is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 01-03-2017, 05:56 PM
Matt1981CJ7
Web Wheeler
 
Matt1981CJ7's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elbert
Posts: 22,115
Yes, I attached Jeephammers diagram. And no, the one you posted is not JH's.

Can you not see my attachment? It displays fine on my computer. If not, here it is again.

Matt
Attached Thumbnails
MainfoldHeater1.jpg  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Matt1981CJ7 is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 01-03-2017, 07:12 PM
John Strenk
Moderator
 
John Strenk's Avatar
1976 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shalersville Ohio
Posts: 19,534
The picture you posted was just an "illuminated" schematic for an 84 and later CJ I drew up in a hurry. It's confusing who's picture is created by whom as I use JH server to post pictures like the one you posted. So they will share the same server name.
You can't go wrong wiring your manifold heater from JH schematic Matt posted. In particular if you are removing/repairing a lot of the wiring.

Does your 83 even have the six pin connector and a diagnostic plug?

If you remove the plug from the manifold to install the switch, it will leak out antifreeze.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I drive a Prius to save money and buy more Jeep Parts....
John Strenk is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 01-04-2017, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
cdt540
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Austin
Posts: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
The picture you posted was just an "illuminated" schematic for an 84 and later CJ I drew up in a hurry. It's confusing who's picture is created by whom as I use JH server to post pictures like the one you posted. So they will share the same server name.
You can't go wrong wiring your manifold heater from JH schematic Matt posted. In particular if you are removing/repairing a lot of the wiring.

Does your 83 even have the six pin connector and a diagnostic plug?

If you remove the plug from the manifold to install the switch, it will leak out antifreeze.
Pretty weird. Matt's post says "Attached Thumbnails" but the link appears and disappears. Anyway, my CJ does not have the diagnostic port but does have the 6 pin connector. Right now all the wires are cut from the 6 pin except the one to the choke. Last night I confirmed I have 12v to the choke only when the engine is running. I also traced and found the green wire for the thermal switch and the orange wire for the heater. So I checked those. Confirmed no power when engine not running. No 12v at the orange with the green not grounded. And I have 12v at the orange with the green grounded. So it appears everything is working properly just needs to be hooked back up. The heater wire (orange) connector was damaged so I replaced it with a single weather pack connector and as soon as the thermal switch arrives I will install it. Hopefully then good to go. Am I missing anything?

Chris
'83 CJ7 (258 5 spd)
Austin, TX
cdt540 is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 01-04-2017, 10:43 AM
John Strenk
Moderator
 
John Strenk's Avatar
1976 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shalersville Ohio
Posts: 19,534
So far it sounds like you are good to go.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I drive a Prius to save money and buy more Jeep Parts....
John Strenk is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 01-04-2017, 03:28 PM
tsanchez23
Registered User
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 331
Garage
Don't want to hijack this thread but I have a question.

When I re-wired my manifold heater and choke, I used the power that came from the factory - off the reverse light supply. That's working, but I was thinking that at some point, it would be better to run dedicated power.

And looking at Jeephammer's diagram, it would seem like this might work...

If I were to add a 3/8 in brass power stud to the fender - fed with 4 AWG off the solenoid, would it be okay to run separate feeds on 10 AWG for not only the main feed to the fuse box, but things like headlight relays, the choke/manifold heater relay, fog light/driving light relays, lights...etc off this as long as I used a breaker or a fusible link on each?

That way I would run 4 AWG from the alternator to the solenoid, and 4 AWG from the solenoid to the battery - and a separate 4 AWG feed off the solenoid to a dedicated power stud.

Anyone? There's probably math involved isn't there? I'm terrible at math but I will do it if I have to...
tsanchez23 is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 01-04-2017, 04:09 PM
jschauer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: College Station
Posts: 37
Garage
#1 I would definitely fuse the link coming off the battery no matter where it's going..so I did battery to a fusible distribution block (with protective cover) and then ran my mains from there.

By alternator do you mean starter? I'm trying to remember my set up off hand but o believe I ran 4 gauge from battery to block, appropriate fuses for the loads - one for starter and a separate main for electronics. Then from there it goes into my fuse panel with 6 gauge and 4 gauge to the solenoid and 4 gauge to the starter.. the alternator is hooked up with a 12-14 gauge wire I'm pretty sure...

I don't have headlight relays added in yet but it's on my list but I will be running it as a separate feed at 6 gauge off my distribution block after a separate fuse.. My main concern from your description is that I wold not go very far before it's fused, because only YOU CAN PREVENT FOREST FIRES..or jeep fires...

Math- you can do it that way, its fairly straight forward. An easier way to size cables is to figure out the load, distance, source voltage and use the sizing chart online...
jschauer is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 01-04-2017, 07:25 PM
John Strenk
Moderator
 
John Strenk's Avatar
1976 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shalersville Ohio
Posts: 19,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschauer View Post
...
By alternator do you mean starter? I'm trying to remember my set up off hand but o believe I ran 4 gauge from battery to block, appropriate fuses for the loads - one for starter and a separate main for electronics. Then from there it goes into my fuse panel with 6 gauge and 4 gauge to the solenoid and 4 gauge to the starter.. the alternator is hooked up with a 12-14 gauge wire I'm pretty sure...

....
Did you put a fuse on your starter circuit?

I would not fuse the headlights, I would use an automatic resetting circuit breaker.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I drive a Prius to save money and buy more Jeep Parts....
John Strenk is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 01-04-2017, 10:29 PM
GarageMonkey
Registered User
 
GarageMonkey's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kansas city
Posts: 70
Matt,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the choke DOES need to be wired into the relay.

In order for the relay to work, it needs 12V on the 85 pin and (when the coolant is below 160 degrees) must be grounded through the geen wire on pin 86: this allows for the higher current to run through pins 30 & 87.

I guess you could provide a switched 12V line to pin 85, but you wouldn't want to do that.

When the system is wired like JeepHammer's diagram, the manifold heater and choke will only recieve power when there is oil pressure. Also, the manifold heater will stop receiveing power once the coolant is temp is >160, but the choke will continue reveiving power as long as there is oil pressure.

-Brad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
The choke works independently of the manifold temp switch. Actually the choke doesn't even need to go thru the relay. It can be wired directly from the oil pressure switch.

Perhaps this diagram (credit to Jeephammer) will help.

Matt
GarageMonkey is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 01-05-2017, 06:07 AM
John Strenk
Moderator
 
John Strenk's Avatar
1976 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shalersville Ohio
Posts: 19,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
The choke works independently of the manifold temp switch. Actually the choke doesn't even need to go thru the relay. It can be wired directly from the oil pressure switch.

Perhaps this diagram (credit to Jeephammer) will help.

Matt
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarageMonkey View Post
Matt,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the choke DOES need to be wired into the relay.

In order for the relay to work, it needs 12V on the 85 pin and (when the coolant is below 160 degrees) must be grounded through the geen wire on pin 86: this allows for the higher current to run through pins 30 & 87.

I guess you could provide a switched 12V line to pin 85, but you wouldn't want to do that.

When the system is wired like JeepHammer's diagram, the manifold heater and choke will only receive power when there is oil pressure. Also, the manifold heater will stop receiving power once the coolant is temp is >160, but the choke will continue receiving power as long as there is oil pressure.

-Brad
You're kind of both right. But the e-choke doesn't NEED to be wired to the relay.

Hooking the e-choke up to pin 85 was just a convenience. The choke can be hooked up to either pin 85 or directly from the oil pressure switch.

Either way, it still makes the e-choke independent of the relay operation. The heater inside the choke housing has a switch internally to keep the heater from getting too hot. So it can be hooked to power as long as the engine is running.

The heater in the choke housing takes minimal current to heat up. The contacts in the oil pressure switch can handle that current for many operations. It doesn't need a separate relay to handle the current like the manifold heater draws.

You only want the choke and the manifold heater to start working after the engine is started.
Otherwise you could open the choke too early making it hard to start the engine. Also the manifold heater will put an additional drain on the battery when you need a lot of current to start the engine.
That is why both are hooked to the oil pressure switch.

Remember, power to the e-choke doesn't close the choke. It heats it up so the choke opens up. The choke closes automatically depending upon the temperature.

I guess it's semantics.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I drive a Prius to save money and buy more Jeep Parts....
John Strenk is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 01-05-2017, 09:12 AM
tsanchez23
Registered User
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 331
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschauer View Post
#1 I would definitely fuse the link coming off the battery no matter where it's going..so I did battery to a fusible distribution block (with protective cover) and then ran my mains from there.

By alternator do you mean starter? I'm trying to remember my set up off hand but o believe I ran 4 gauge from battery to block, appropriate fuses for the loads - one for starter and a separate main for electronics. Then from there it goes into my fuse panel with 6 gauge and 4 gauge to the solenoid and 4 gauge to the starter.. the alternator is hooked up with a 12-14 gauge wire I'm pretty sure...
Nope, I mean alternator...

I have a 100 amp one-wire alternator and the output cable is a 4 AWG that is tied to the rear (input) post on the solenoid. Also on that post is a) another 4 AWG cable that goes to the positive side of the battery and b) a 10AWG with fusible link that supplies the fuse box with power. Output to the starter is on the front (output) side of the solenoid.

What I propose is to add a power stud like this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 somewhere close to the solenoid, pulling a short 4 AWG off the (input) side of the solenoid to this post, and then using this post as a central point for outbound 12V to anything else - the fuse box, MSD, headlight relays, drive light relays, the choke/heater relay, radios/amps...etc. And each separate circuit would get either a fusible link or a breaker - self-resetting in the case of the headlight circuits.

The idea I have here in my brain is to cut down on the drain on that 10 AWG fuse box circuit. Keep things as close to the battery/alternator as possible and also isolated as much as possible so a problem with one circuit doesn't affect anything else. The only things I want actually *running* on the circuit fed by that 10 AWG to the fuse box are the ignition switch itself, light switches, the gauges that require polarity and the gauge/indicator/courtesy/warning/tail/brake/reverse lights. Radios, amps, the 12V "charging ports" - or anything else I chose to install inside the cabin...would be on a dedicated circuit. I would even like to run the heater/vent fan on a separate circuit.

My fear is that I'm over-thinking things. Which I have a tendency to do...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jschauer View Post
I don't have headlight relays added in yet but it's on my list but I will be running it as a separate feed at 6 gauge off my distribution block after a separate fuse.. My main concern from your description is that I wold not go very far before it's fused, because only YOU CAN PREVENT FOREST FIRES..or jeep fires...

Math- you can do it that way, its fairly straight forward. An easier way to size cables is to figure out the load, distance, source voltage and use the sizing chart online...
I don't have headlight relays yet either. I have all the parts, but haven't installed them yet. My plan is to add them as part of my overall wiring project this Spring - with 10 AWG and a single self-resetting breaker on the main power link along with breakers on each of the feeds to the high and low beams as well. I think it was Jeephammer who proposed this originally. It may be overkill to have that many breakers but....
tsanchez23 is offline  
post #15 of 16 Old 01-05-2017, 09:53 AM
jschauer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: College Station
Posts: 37
Garage
John- I have a both a main fuse and a starter fuse. And you are correct in that you want a breaker, although I'm a most positive I learned that from one of your other write ups! Can't drive very far at night without lights and you couldn't have enough spare fuses...

OP- you are on the right track, or at least the same track I am on. Keep things separate so troubleshooting is easier! I've seen people use the input size of the starter solenoid as the "lug" you are trying to buy and if it's big enough I don't see any issue with that, but it would look cleaner and easier to troubleshoot if you ran a separate "lug" or post off the fender.

Try to keep in mind that the fenders are removable separate from The grill and tub and if someday you want more room to get at the engine or brake lines or gas lines that anything mounted to the fender will have to be removed and/or moved out of the way.. so plan to have enough extra wire and/or easy disconnects..

Fun stuff!
jschauer is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome