Universal primer? - JeepForum.com
 17Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 50 Old 06-27-2020, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
John Strenk
Moderator
 
John Strenk's Avatar
1976 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shalersville Ohio
Posts: 20,352
Universal primer?

Is there a good ‘universal primer for paint jobs with previous paint jobs of unknown types?

Trying to paint my Jeep this week but unsure of the multiple layers of paint.

Attached Thumbnails
image_1593288975177.jpg  


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I drive a Prius to save money and buy more Jeep Parts....
John Strenk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 50 Old 06-27-2020, 10:31 PM
BagusJeep
Web Wheeler
 
BagusJeep's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali
Posts: 7,515
A 2 part epoxy primer would be ideal, it would stop reactions with the new top coats and is specifically made to deal with unfriendly existing finishes. I put this stuff on at an early stage in bodywork, it is just so much easier to work with a substrate that is not going to react later.

It is so far removed from the primer that AMC used that it is space ship v carthorse.

I would degrease the surface and get it well keyed before applying. Not the most health friendly so whilst you can get it in aerosols, be careful to use PPE, especially a half respirator with the right filters and be very well ventilated.

Eastwood and Rustoleum both market the aerosols, not used them myself.
Jim1611 and DougE like this.

BagusJeep lives in Bali.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline  
post #3 of 50 Old 06-28-2020, 07:41 AM
Axhammer
Web Wheeler
 
Axhammer's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Moyock
Posts: 1,138
Garage
A general purpose hi build primer is what I would use. A quick google search came up with a lot of options. You could always call a company like Eastwood and ask them if the product I will link below would be suitable for what you are doing. I suspect it would be fine. What paint are you planning for topcoat? You might have to use an appropriate sealer before you spray the topcoat you choose. The primer used for doing the bodywork, can be a little more generic in nature since the sealer for the particular topcoat of choice, will provide the compatibility and adhesion required.

As far as using products from the same manufacturer goes, that has always been recommended. I have always tried to comply with this statement, however; I have mixed different paint product brands many times over the years. I have never had a bad reaction from different brands used together, so some of the stuff I have heard about, I don’t necessarily agree with.

https://www.eastwood.com/usc-high-bu...er-gallon.html

1985 CJ-7 Red with white hardtop, 258 auto
View my Pontiac in my profile
Axhammer is online now  
 
post #4 of 50 Old 06-28-2020, 08:37 AM
Dryseals
Registered User
1980 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,441
I've painted cars since the mid 80's and as in your case where you have exposed metal, I would use a little ospho to kill any flash rust and then any primer you want to use after that is going to be Ok. I am partial to DTM and self etching primers, I know they work. Not a real fan of the expoxies because they are not friendly to folks like us who work on it over the weeks. If you are going for some kind of wild fancy paint job for a concurs car then I can see going with one manufacturer all the way.

I went down to almost all bare metal on a 72 MGB back in 1986, used ospho and rust-oleum rattle can primer and then shot it with a single stage enamel. The car went under water with Hurricane Ike in 2007. The guy who bought it from me complemented how good the paint still looked. I had two bubbles on the hood.

If it was me, I'd go down to Home Depot and buy some DTM rust-oleum and shoot it with that. I have a very good friend who does these high end custom paint jobs, he just rolled out a two year job on a 68 Camaro the owner invested over $200K into the car and he uses a lot of the rust-oleum products underneath because like he says, they work.
Dryseals is offline  
post #5 of 50 Old 06-28-2020, 11:51 AM
Nor Cal CJ5
Registered User
 
Nor Cal CJ5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 136
I just bought some primer, paint, and clear coat from this company to test out.

https://www.automotivetouchup.com/rtsdirections.htm

They have my jeep color available and have products in various paint types and application methods.

1972 CJ5 304 V8, 3 speed manual trans
Nor Cal CJ5 is offline  
post #6 of 50 Old 06-29-2020, 06:45 AM
ranger83
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: New Braunfels
Posts: 220
I have used automotive touch up and there products IMHO work great.
Nor Cal CJ5 likes this.

Ranger83
86 CJ7(current)
83CJ5(former)
ranger83 is offline  
post #7 of 50 Old 06-29-2020, 08:15 AM
Renegade82
Registered User
 
Renegade82's Avatar
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lewistown
Posts: 5,413
Garage
I'm no bodyman but my thoughts would be to use a self-etching primer first to be able to grab the different surfaces it's covering. Then a high-build primer to level out the steps in the old paints.

The end of a defining era.... JEEP R.I.P. 1941-1986
My frame off Re-Build: (the 4 year saga....)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Renegade82 is offline  
post #8 of 50 Old 06-29-2020, 10:23 AM
WadeHiersSr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Castle Rock
Posts: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade82 View Post
I'm no bodyman but my thoughts would be to use a self-etching primer first to be able to grab the different surfaces it's covering. Then a high-build primer to level out the steps in the old paints.
This is the approach I'm using. I'm not stripping the entire body down to bare metal but many areas will get there from sanding and bodywork.

Since I'm doing much of the initial coating in small areas as I work my way around the body, I decided against a 2 part paint. Spraying smaller areas makes the mix calculations a royal P.I.T.A.

These are the products I am using:

initial coat:
https://tcpglobal.com/collections/au...ts/sem-39684_5

surfacing coats: (works like a high-build coat)
https://tcpglobal.com/collections/au...ts/sem-39134_5

I'm literally just shooting these (slightly thinned) with a $30 HF gravity feed gun.
https://www.harborfreight.com/air-to...tor-62381.html

I did add a 3M PPS 2.0 adapter and cup kit.
WadeHiersSr is offline  
post #9 of 50 Old 06-29-2020, 10:29 AM
WadeHiersSr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Castle Rock
Posts: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by WadeHiersSr View Post
I should add.... I have used SEM products on a number of projects. I have yet to use a SEM product of any sort that I was unhappy with the results.

Their rattle-can self etching primer is the exact same product that I'm using from a 1qt can. It even sticks to chromed metals if you sandblast it to etch a "tooth" into the surface.
WadeHiersSr is offline  
post #10 of 50 Old 06-29-2020, 07:07 PM
Dryseals
Registered User
1980 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by WadeHiersSr View Post
This is the approach I'm using. I'm not stripping the entire body down to bare metal but many areas will get there from sanding and bodywork.

Since I'm doing much of the initial coating in small areas as I work my way around the body, I decided against a 2 part paint. Spraying smaller areas makes the mix calculations a royal P.I.T.A.

These are the products I am using:

initial coat:
https://tcpglobal.com/collections/au...ts/sem-39684_5

surfacing coats: (works like a high-build coat)
https://tcpglobal.com/collections/au...ts/sem-39134_5

I'm literally just shooting these (slightly thinned) with a $30 HF gravity feed gun.
https://www.harborfreight.com/air-to...tor-62381.html

I did add a 3M PPS 2.0 adapter and cup kit.

I agree with your method, tools and choice of paints 100%. Only thing I will say is when you go to shoot color, get a decent gun with the right tip for the color...solids, thats what its all about.
Dryseals is offline  
post #11 of 50 Old 06-29-2020, 10:56 PM
WadeHiersSr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Castle Rock
Posts: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryseals View Post
Only thing I will say is when you go to shoot color, get a decent gun with the right tip for the color...solids, thats what its all about.
Yeah... pretty sure I don't want to even try a color coat with this HF POS... much less the pearl coat or clear... but I'm pretty sure I'm just going to pay someone else to shoot it when it gets to that stage.

Planning on going with this:

https://tcpglobal.com/collections/ho...c-pbc32-qt_new
WadeHiersSr is offline  
post #12 of 50 Old 06-29-2020, 11:37 PM Thread Starter
John Strenk
Moderator
 
John Strenk's Avatar
1976 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shalersville Ohio
Posts: 20,352
I was wondering about the tub. Do I need to prime that again or just a good roughing up of the finish?

For yucks a few years ago I shot some color on an extra set of fenders I have and the stuff still looks good after laying around in the overflow p[art of the yard.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I drive a Prius to save money and buy more Jeep Parts....
John Strenk is offline  
post #13 of 50 Old 06-30-2020, 05:45 AM
Axhammer
Web Wheeler
 
Axhammer's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Moyock
Posts: 1,138
Garage
Primer is generally applied to bare metal, to protect it and provide something that the topcoat can be applied to, primer that has been in place for an extended timeframe, should be scuffed to provide topcoat adhesion.

Hi build primer is generally used when fine tuning the “bodywork”. The hood you have pictured is a good example of where hi build primer is beneficial. It can be applied and then sanded, until the desired results have been achieved. The area on the hood where body filler was applied to the metal will need several rounds of priming & sanding (Block Sanding) until the transition is smoothed and therefore hidden. Spot putty is often used with Hi build primer to fill or smooth rough areas. When working a panel, run your hand over the area you are trying to make smooth, or hide. If you can feel it with your hand, you will see it after you paint it. Work it until you can’t feel it with your fingertips or hand. When you think you have an area worked well, and ready for paint, run a garden hose over the area, allow the water to roll off the area, the water will leave a wet shiny surface that will reveal imperfections to the trained eye. You have to learn how to look at it, or view it, but it works.

Any topcoat that is still in place, and in good condition, can be scuffed for a new topcoat application. The only drawback to this scenario is paint thickness may become excessive, if done repeatedly.

Primer sealers are handy because they do not require scuffing for adhesion. They are designed to work with your particular topcoat, and they are normally applied over the entire car or part, and then shortly after it has dried, the topcoat is applied. The sealer adheres to the car or part because the surface was sanded or scuffed. The top coat is applied to the sealer without scuffing the sealer, and the topcoat adheres to the sealer due to a chemical bond, or adhesion.

There are general rules a bodyman will follow, but it’s all a compromise that is related to money. You can’t make everything look perfect, unless you are willing to do the bodywork & prep-work before applying the topcoat. And some people break the rules without running into problems, so you have to take everything with a grain of salt, so to speak. Some cars or repairs to cars just don’t need to be perfect, or a high level of effort put into them. The fenders you mentioned are a good example, scuff it, paint it and send it down the road may be all that is needed for a CJ that is going to be used different that other vehicles.
Dryseals likes this.

1985 CJ-7 Red with white hardtop, 258 auto
View my Pontiac in my profile
Axhammer is online now  
post #14 of 50 Old 06-30-2020, 08:34 AM
WadeHiersSr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Castle Rock
Posts: 106
The one thing I would add to Axhammer's write-up here is that if you have a mix of bare metal (due to sanding, stripping or new metal welded in) and previously coated areas, I would still plan on applying one coat of a "Self-Etch" primer like the SEM product I mentioned above. You will still want to scuff the old paint to ensure good adhesion. All primers work by accomplishing a strong mechanical bond to whatever they're applied to. (that's why you scuff the surface). The "Self-Etch" properties of this product will create an improved chemical/mechanical bond to the bare metal while achieving that mechanical bond to the prior coatings.
WadeHiersSr is offline  
post #15 of 50 Old 06-30-2020, 09:49 AM
Axhammer
Web Wheeler
 
Axhammer's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Moyock
Posts: 1,138
Garage
I agree with the etching primer, quality primer that is applied to bare metal is important. Anything with zinc or chrome usually works very good, but that stuff will kill you if you do not wear proper PPE. There are many products that have been developed and evolved since the last time I pained a car. If I remember correctly I paid $55 for a gallon of Centari, Duponts version of acrylic enamal, from the local NAPA store, paint jobber. Those types of stores no longer exist, a lot of sales are made online, and the cost has gone through the roof.

When I pull my tub to do my SOA YJ leaf spring stretch conversion, I will be delving into the automotive refinishing realm once again, and learning the new products along the way.

The basics haven’t changed, but the products have evolved. Here is some stuff from the SEM site I found interesting. Too bad the weld through primer has been discontinued.
Attached Thumbnails
894B4EA3-0608-4881-A733-D96EEF88F8D9.jpg   CCC9B63A-5C2F-4C98-95E0-2E5136634E98.jpg  

1985 CJ-7 Red with white hardtop, 258 auto
View my Pontiac in my profile
Axhammer is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome