Tremec T-176 vs. T-177 / T-178 differences - JeepForum.com
 14Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 52 Old 12-31-2017, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
Renegade82
Registered User
 
Renegade82's Avatar
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lewistown
Posts: 5,298
Garage
Tremec T-176 vs. T-177 / T-178 differences

I'm trying to research the T-176 and I'm finding that the difference between the 176 and the 177/178 is that the 176 was used in the Jeep (5 & 7's) and the 177 and 178 was used in the full sized models like the pickups and Wagoneers. The 176 has a "significantly" shorter input shaft, the other two are longer but I don't know how much. The 176 sticks out 7 1/2" from the case. The other difference is the gear ratio's.
So how can I tell for sure a visual difference when buying a used one, which one it is? What's the length of the longer one? And is there only a 2 3/4" bellhousing adapter on the 177/178, and none on the 176?


The end of a defining era.... JEEP R.I.P. 1941-1986
My frame off Re-Build: (the 4 year saga....)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Renegade82 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 52 Old 01-01-2018, 09:43 AM
only in a jeep cj
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Mobile
Posts: 5,931
Iím going off of memory here so someone chime in if I say something incorrect. The T176 and T177 are the same size and look identical. The difference is in the first gear with the T177 having a lower first of 3.8 versus the T176 of 3.5. Look on the right side of the transmission lower front for a tag if it ends in 90 itís a 76 if it ends in 89 itís a 77. I believe the 178 has got a longer input shaft to match a much deeper bellhousing that was used in the full-size jeeps to get the shifter further out from under the dash and closer to the seats.

Just look at the tag as long as you have one of the short input shaft ones, I thought that I had several T176s. It turned out all four or five of them were T177Ďs. Much more common imo.

IF the tag is missing and the unit is out of the jeep, you can put it in first gear and with a mark on each exposed shaft, spin the rear one one full turn and count the front one. After 3 rotations, the mark will either stop at the 6 oíclock position for .5 or the 10 oíclock point for .8.

Also I read somewhere that the 176 was used in the CJs in 80/81 and then it was 177s from then on so the 177 is more common even though folks refer to it as a 176.

Ed
1975 CJ-6 1983 CJ-8
1986 CJ-7 Laredo 1986 TJ-7 Trail Jeep
2003 Inca Gold TJ Rubicon
only in a jeep cj is offline  
post #3 of 52 Old 01-01-2018, 12:13 PM
shadoow
Senior Member
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 892
I bought a trans advertised as a T176 a few years ago. During the rebuild I noticed the tag indicated it was a 177. Counting gear teeth verified it's a 177. The input shaft sticks out 7 1/2" from the front of the case. Been running it in my CJ7 2 w/258 since the rebuild.
shadoow is offline  
 
post #4 of 52 Old 01-02-2018, 12:38 AM
80cj
Web Wheeler
 
80cj's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 7,628
T-178 has a higher first gear ratio 3:1 and was used in FSJ's.
80cj is offline  
post #5 of 52 Old 01-02-2018, 05:45 AM
jdboy
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Baileyton
Posts: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by only in a jeep cj View Post



Also I read somewhere that the 176 was used in the CJs in 80/81 and then it was 177s from then on so the 177 is more common even though folks refer to it as a 176.

Iíve read this before and always found it confusing as the original window sticker of my 1985 CJ-7 clearly states T176 under options.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'm looking to purchase a 15x8.5" aluminum mod wheel with gold anodized center.
jdboy is offline  
post #6 of 52 Old 01-02-2018, 10:44 AM
justals
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 328
Garage
I had the t176 in my 85cj, switched it out for a t177. Was a direct swap, no issues.

85 CJ - Renegade; 85 CJ - Base; 86 CJ - Laredo
14 JKU - Rubicon; 14 Cherokee - Latitude
justals is offline  
post #7 of 52 Old 01-02-2018, 10:48 AM
wm69
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdboy View Post
Iíve read this before and always found it confusing as the original window sticker of my 1985 CJ-7 clearly states T176 under options.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I was under the impression that they just say "4 speed"
Attached Thumbnails
paperwork.jpg  

85 CJ7 258, borla header, Team Rush, MC2100 ,optima batt, Warn 8274, agr super box 2 & pump, T5 w/ B&M shifter, centerforce 2, superior 1 piece axles, warn hubs 2.5 in lift, 31" BFG MT

85 CJ7 258, A/C, T176, MC2100, Team Rush, Warn XD8000i, superwinch hubs, 3in lift 31" BFG AT/KO
wm69 is offline  
post #8 of 52 Old 01-02-2018, 11:04 AM
jdboy
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Baileyton
Posts: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by wm69 View Post
I was under the impression that they just say "4 speed"
You're correct, I went back and looked and in fact it does say "Transmission-Syncronized 4-Speed. IDK, what made me think it specified T176. Anyhow thanks for keeping me straight.
jdboy is offline  
post #9 of 52 Old 01-02-2018, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
Renegade82
Registered User
 
Renegade82's Avatar
1982 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Lewistown
Posts: 5,298
Garage
What it's starting to look like is the 176 was used in the Jeep, the 178 in the full sized models, and the 177 could have gone either way. I know the gears are different so what it comes down to then is at first glance, the input shaft is what differentiates them. A shorter 7 1/2" or a longer ??" shaft. How long is the longer one? I've seen 12 5/8" but only one place.

The end of a defining era.... JEEP R.I.P. 1941-1986
My frame off Re-Build: (the 4 year saga....)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Renegade82 is offline  
post #10 of 52 Old 01-02-2018, 11:30 AM
only in a jeep cj
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Mobile
Posts: 5,931
So in 85 for example, it sounds like you could get either a 176?, a 177, or a T4.

Based on all the CJs I’ve seen and worked on over the last 27 years, it appears the T4 was found behind both the 4 and 6 cyl engines but had different input spline counts ( 14 vs 10). The tremic units behind the 6 cyl only ? That’s all Ive seen but not sure.

Ive seen a lot of Scramblers come with T177s but I’ve seen the Borg Warner 4 and 5 speeds in them as well.

I would guess a towing package would get you a 177, but was it stated or were you given the options?

Ed
1975 CJ-6 1983 CJ-8
1986 CJ-7 Laredo 1986 TJ-7 Trail Jeep
2003 Inca Gold TJ Rubicon
only in a jeep cj is offline  
post #11 of 52 Old 01-02-2018, 12:08 PM
JeepdaddyRC
Registered User
1983 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,281
The window sticker and VIN did not specify the type of 4 speed transmission (SR4, T-4, T-176, T-177). In my experience the T-176 is only found on early 80's CJs that still offered the 3.54 rear end. Once the standard axle ratio was changed to 2.73 (or optional 3.31) the T-176 was modified from a 3.52 first gear to the 3.82 first gear. This is technically a T-177 and widely respected as the best Jeep transmission of the 80s. Some of the info on Novak's website is incorrect.
JeepdaddyRC is offline  
post #12 of 52 Old 01-02-2018, 01:11 PM
only in a jeep cj
Registered User
1986 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Mobile
Posts: 5,931
Bingo^^^^ that matches what Ive seen as the later ones with the 177 all had the 272 gears.

SR4 was in 80 and 81 and had a 3.5 first as well so I wonder why they offered both.

The T4/5 had a 4.03 first and made up for the higher axle gears.

The 3.31 gears works well with the overdrive T5 as the RPMs are bumped down at highway speeds, but first, second, is geared a little lower.

Ed
1975 CJ-6 1983 CJ-8
1986 CJ-7 Laredo 1986 TJ-7 Trail Jeep
2003 Inca Gold TJ Rubicon
only in a jeep cj is offline  
post #13 of 52 Old 01-03-2018, 02:54 PM
80cj
Web Wheeler
 
80cj's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 7,628
I believe the T-177 was used in FSJ's with 6 cylinder engines. The FSJ's with V-8's (360) used the T-178.
80cj is offline  
post #14 of 52 Old 01-04-2018, 01:27 PM
wm69
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by only in a jeep cj View Post
Bingo^^^^ that matches what Ive seen as the later ones with the 177 all had the 272 gears.

SR4 was in 80 and 81 and had a 3.5 first as well so I wonder why they offered both.

The T4/5 had a 4.03 first and made up for the higher axle gears.

The 3.31 gears works well with the overdrive T5 as the RPMs are bumped down at highway speeds, but first, second, is geared a little lower.
That makes sense. I think every T17X I've seen had the 2.73's


Dad simply told the sales rep he wanted a 4 speed, and didn't specify which one (I was 10 at the time and had no idea what a gear ratio was so I wasn't involved in the process).


He got the T176 luckily, but also got the 2.73's


Here's what Dad ordered specifically. No mention of specifics so not sure if the dealer chose which specifically he would get or if that's something that would happen on the factory end given the information given.
Attached Thumbnails
paperwork1.jpg  

85 CJ7 258, borla header, Team Rush, MC2100 ,optima batt, Warn 8274, agr super box 2 & pump, T5 w/ B&M shifter, centerforce 2, superior 1 piece axles, warn hubs 2.5 in lift, 31" BFG MT

85 CJ7 258, A/C, T176, MC2100, Team Rush, Warn XD8000i, superwinch hubs, 3in lift 31" BFG AT/KO
wm69 is offline  
post #15 of 52 Old 01-04-2018, 06:06 PM
80cj
Web Wheeler
 
80cj's Avatar
1980 CJ5 
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 7,628
My friend had a 84 CJ-7 with T-177 and 3.31 gears. It was very much stock with the Laredo option.
80cj is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome