T5 Clunking When Clutch Engaged/Disengaged - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 19 Old 10-12-2019, 02:20 PM Thread Starter
mystert29
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T5 Clunking When Clutch Engaged/Disengaged

So I have a 84 cj7 with a t5 and just installed a set of used axles with a Detroit locker in the rear and 4.10 gears. I’ve driven the Jeep about 100miles since the install and I’m now getting a clunk from the T-5 transmission when I depress the clutch when moving in 2 gear and higher. I haven’t done anything crazy other than drive on the freeway, around town, and to work. Zero off-roading. I’ve driven it with the front drive shaft removed as well as the rear drive shaft removed to rule out the Detroit locker and the ujoints in the driveshafts. I’ve retorqued the u bolts on the leaf springs as well. I’ve changed the fluid and replaced the ATF that was In there for Pennzoil synchromesh fluid and still no issue. When changing the fluid I didn’t notice any large metal pieces or shavings at all in the pan. The transmission was supposedly replaced/rebuilt by the previous owner 10k miles ago. I’ve also removed the gear shift access panel and the noise is definitely coming from the transmission. I’m not quite sure what to look at next. Can I removed the top of the transmission and inspect anything? Any ideas? The Jeep runs and drives great just clanks when utilizing the clutch pedal.

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post #2 of 19 Old 10-13-2019, 01:32 AM
trailhead2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystert29 View Post
I’ve changed the fluid and replaced the ATF that was In there for Pennzoil synchromesh fluid and still no issue.
I thought I was going to answer your question here but now I think I have more questions myself.

I was going to say something about ATF not going in a T5, and how one I brought one home for my CJ7 dumped a few pints of gear oil in the trunk of my Intrepid. Then I go to the Tremec website (http://www.tremec.com/anexos/TRSM-T5-0510-R1_173.pdf) and see that a T5 is supposed to be serviced with Dexron II in the WC and HD units. Now I’m confused. I understand that some manual transmissions use ATF. My ZF 5 speed in my 1992 F250 uses it so it’s not unheard of.

I’m going to say check the FSM and see what it says to use. I’m on the road so I can’t access my manuals, but maybe oil choice is the issue. You mentioned 2nd through 5th so my guess is a synchro issue, possibly caused by improper lubricant but I can’t verify what is correct.

I’ll be monitoring to see how this turns out.

Best of luck!
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post #3 of 19 Old 10-13-2019, 07:09 AM
keith460
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I have the same model year and same T5 transmission and use the same Pennzoil syncromesh fluid for lubrication and it shifts better than it did with AMC's ATF that was in there previously. But I had also rebuilt the T5 myself using a kit from Novak Enterprises. You can pull the cover off to inspect the inside but it can be tricky trying to remove the roll pin in the Offset Lever in order to get the cover off. Have done that before on a friends T4 trans back in the day but it is doable. Make sure the transmission is in neutral before pulling the cover.

I would look for a front bearing that is loose and going bad or one of the bearings in the bottom Counter Shaft going bad also. If you a clunking while shifting, the entire gear or counter shaft assembly may be moving. That was what was wrong with friends T4 trans, a counter shaft bearing disintegrated, rear one If I remember, due to the 2.73 gears and 33" tires he was running on for just about forever.

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post #4 of 19 Old 10-13-2019, 09:34 AM
oldschool74cj5
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hello
i would check your clutch and linkages. also if you let the clutch out slowly does it still clunk. hard shifting can make more noise due to hard jolting of the gears due to backlash. it used to be semi common on older designed manuals.especially when the transmission has a wide ratio gear set.



i know there is a big argument online about what goes in a t5 transmission. where most people say you must use ATF. that is true for 95% of t5's. the t5 that uses the ATF is a "WC" which stands for the world class version which has the needle bearings between the shaft and gears. since amc was broke they used the early version "NWC non world class" that was cheaper where the gear rides on the shaft directly so gear oil was used. the gear oil spec they called for was pretty much a 80w85 gl4 gear oil. now there is the problem of finding. in my tired T4 i tried synchromesh fluid but found after a week or so it didnt like to downshift without grinding. so i did some searching for a non gl5 gear oil. after some thinking i remember that most big rigs use a MTF manual transmission fluid which is pretty much a gl4 oil. going to the oil companies industrial sites i found a 80 weight gl4 dino oil that i am now using. after about 25 miles it downshifts nice as well as regular shifting is also nicer. i bought a 5 gallon bucket for a little over 100 bucks so now i change once a year while i do the other fluids. im sure you could buy a gallon of it from a truck service center. i have the sae30 weight which on the oil viscosity charts is in the 80 weight gear oil range.


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post #5 of 19 Old 10-13-2019, 10:12 AM
trailhead2004
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Thanks for chiming in @keith460 and @oldschool , I was definitely confused. I thought the Jeep T5ís were the WC version. I understand the difference you cited (needle bearings vs on shaft) so it makes sense. I havenít rebuilt my T5 yet because Iím likely going to change over to an NV4550 on my CJ7 rebuild.

Thanks again guys.
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post #6 of 19 Old 10-13-2019, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
mystert29
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I don’t think it’s fluid related because I’ve daily driven the Jeep all summer with the 3.31 gears and 33’s with no issue. Just changed it hoping for a $20 quick fix and not a hundred of dollars transmission rebuild. ’m not sure what exactly to look at in the clutch linkage. Everything feels tight, nothings running on the body/chassis as similar posts have mentioned. The only thing that has changed was swapping in the new Amc20. I think im going to pull the transmission next weekend and take a better look. Looks like
I might be able to remove the top cover while it’s in the Jeep. Earlier post said to remove the side cover? Question about taking the trans out, when you remove the transmission, does the engine tilt backwards like a gm v8 or forward towards the radiator like a bmw straight six?
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post #7 of 19 Old 10-13-2019, 04:39 PM
rbunch4468
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You will need to support the rear of the engine from below. The combined engine and transmission are normally held by the crossmember which you’ll be removing. You will get mixed feedback on how to deal with the transfer case, I personally pull it separately. Do yourself a favor and get a transmission jack. A low profile one like you can get at HF will do fine. Use it for both the transfer case then the T5.

Before disassembling any of the driveline , rock the driveshaft. Maybe you will still get lucky and find only a crappy u-joint
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post #8 of 19 Old 10-13-2019, 05:02 PM
oldschool74cj5
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hello


when does it make the clunking sound? when you push the clutch or letting out or both? i would try driving it using a couple of different driving techniques. try low rpm shifting while letting off the gas completely before slowly smoothly clutch. if it doesnt do it then its prob not mechanical but technique. that was a pretty good jump for gearing and kept the same tires. the only reason i say that is i remem teaching my daughter the other week to drive a stick. she could make a bunch of drive train noises i never make.

i have a trans jack from harbor freight and i remove all at once. i made a support that goes on the jack from wood. but i have the jeep on 6 ton stands with 2x4 blocks under them. then i drop the trans,transfercase and cross member all together. as for the engine i made a support out of 2x4's that is 6" square that looks like a giant jenga set to support the engine under the oil pan.

oldschool
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post #9 of 19 Old 11-11-2019, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
mystert29
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Some updates, I took the trans out and noticed that the throwout bearing was absolutely trashed. I replaced it with a new SKF part from napa and put it all back together. The bearing went bad because the clutch was adjusted wrong and had no free play at all. I buttoned it back up and adjusted the clutch and IT STILL CLUNKED! I took it out again on Saturday and found the clutch pivot ball had fallen out. I took the bellhousing off and powerwashed it clean, helicoiled the transmission mounting holes, and put the clutch pivot ball back in and buttoned the whole thing up. I took a tape measure and adjusted the clutch so there was 1-1/8" of free play in the pedal and and backed it out of the driveway and IT STILL CLUNKED! I ripped it all apart a third time. I took the clutch off the flywheel and upon inspection everything look good, nothings loose/damaged/broke in the pressure plate or friction disc. I pulled the trans apart hoping to find a broken tooth in the transmission or a bad bearing or worn syncros. The previous owner was right and the trans was recently rebuilt, the syncros look brand new and the surfaces that ride against the gear cone still have the factory texture on them. No broken teeth, no broken shift fork. I am stumped
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post #10 of 19 Old 11-11-2019, 12:07 PM
Tripledoubleyah
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I am sure you checked after removing and installing it 3 times now, but is the transfer case torque bracket tight with good bushings? Is it there at all? Is the tranny held in place on the skid plate by anything? I have a 1983 w/ the T5 & Dana 300 and mine clunked and was difficult to get into 1st & reverse. Found that the bushing was bad & 1 bolt was stripped going into the bottom of the transmission. Removed torque bracket altogether and drilled a new hole in the skid plate to line up with the other mounting hole on the bottom of the tranny(mine has 3). Just attached tranny to mount directly to skid plate. Fixed all the issues with shifting and noise.
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post #11 of 19 Old 11-11-2019, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
mystert29
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I replaced the torque arm bushings with poly ones as well as a new energy suspension trans mount the first time i took it out. I can get it all apart in 45min now..... timed myself the third time lol
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post #12 of 19 Old 11-11-2019, 12:39 PM
Fourtrail
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How much free rotation is in the diff? I see that both have a limit slip/locker and they will both have a bit more play, on top of going from 3.31's to 4.10's. Do you have a gopro or some camera that you can point at the trans when you are moving and work the clutch? Does the shift lever move side to side when you are on/off of the clutch?

80 CJ-5, 74 CJ-6, 56 CJ-5
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post #13 of 19 Old 11-11-2019, 01:58 PM
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I just drained the gear oil out of my T5 (85 CJ7), and put syncromesh in it. Night and day difference.
I also bought an original owner's manual. It calls for 85w90 gear oil in the T5.
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post #14 of 19 Old 11-11-2019, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
mystert29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourtrail View Post
How much free rotation is in the diff? I see that both have a limit slip/locker and they will both have a bit more play, on top of going from 3.31's to 4.10's. Do you have a gopro or some camera that you can point at the trans when you are moving and work the clutch? Does the shift lever move side to side when you are on/off of the clutch?
I need to reassembly the transmission and put it back in one of the weekends coming up. I have a detroit locker in the rear and it bangs and makes noise like they always do. I disconnected the rear drive shaft and drove it around in front wheel drive with only the Torsen style Truetrac and it still clunked. Ill have an old go pro in the closet i can try to zip tie onto the chassis once its all back together.
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post #15 of 19 Old 11-11-2019, 02:55 PM
John Strenk
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Are the output shaft splines worn were they go into the t-case?

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Just looking through some of my old assembly pictures and notice mine are wearing out also,

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I wonder what they look like after 10 years of plowing snow...
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