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post #1 of 21 Old 09-26-2021, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
eroeder
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Starting Technique

For a CJ non-injected motor (232), what is the best technique to start a cold engine that’s been sitting a few days? Looking to see if I can reduce time cranking on starter.


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post #2 of 21 Old 09-26-2021, 03:06 PM
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How many is a few? I've let mine sit for weeks at a time and it usually starts right up but i always do these things first. Ensure battery is fully charged. If not charge it. Usually I use a solar trickle charger to preserve the charge. Then I take the breather top off and check if the choke is in the proper position for the day's weather. If It has been a while since it was last started I spray some WD40 down the throttle. It works as well as ether starting fuel and isn't as near explosive.

If it has just sat for a week or 10 days I usually l just start it up by tapping the gas twice.

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post #3 of 21 Old 09-26-2021, 06:26 PM
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Press accelerator pedal to the floor slowly for a few seconds and then release. Crank the engine for a few seconds. Like maybe 5. If it did not start, let off key to run, press the accelerator pedal to the floor again. Restart.
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post #4 of 21 Old 09-26-2021, 09:21 PM
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Pump the gas pedal fully 2-3 times.

I pull my manual choke out while the gas pedal is down (this sorta unlocks the manual choke)

Then I start cranking!

I remove the automatic choke and I install my "own" manual chokes (kits from a parts store)

I WANT TO BE IN CHARGE OF WHEN THE CHOKE IS OFF OR ON!

You can also "crack it" as it warms up

Normally, a manual choke will not stick in a closed or partially closed position.

I reckon it might take a little time to remember to push it back in! Usually you will detect the engine holding back, then shove it in.

Sometimes I'll leave the choke open (button remains in)

He'll fire right up, then I drive him gently until he warms up, During that 1st 2 miles I don't jump into traffic or take chances. (of course you can open the choke some and he'll run better).

I have about 2 miles of lightly traveled road till I get to something major---I drive like granny---So not using the choke is nothing for me!

Or you can just sit at the house till he warms up.

-----JEEPFELLER
Attached Thumbnails
INSTALLING MANUAL CHOKE 009.jpg   INSTALLING MANUAL CHOKE 005.jpg   INSTALLING MANUAL CHOKE 006.jpg   INSTALLING MANUAL CHOKE 010.jpg   INSTALLING MANUAL CHOKE 001.jpg  

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post #5 of 21 Old 09-27-2021, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEPFELLER View Post
Pump the gas pedal fully 2-3 times.

I pull my manual choke out while the gas pedal is down (this sorta unlocks the manual choke)

Then I start cranking!

I remove the automatic choke and I install my "own" manual chokes (kits from a parts store)

I WANT TO BE IN CHARGE OF WHEN THE CHOKE IS OFF OR ON!

You can also "crack it" as it warms up

Normally, a manual choke will not stick in a closed or partially closed position.

I reckon it might take a little time to remember to push it back in! Usually you will detect the engine holding back, then shove it in.

Sometimes I'll leave the choke open (button remains in)

He'll fire right up, then I drive him gently until he warms up, During that 1st 2 miles I don't jump into traffic or take chances. (of course you can open the choke some and he'll run better).

I have about 2 miles of lightly traveled road till I get to something major---I drive like granny---So not using the choke is nothing for me!

Or you can just sit at the house till he warms up.

-----JEEPFELLER
I prefer manual choke myself, and my 258 likes full choke to start even in the summer. She's evidently a bit cold natured.
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post #6 of 21 Old 09-27-2021, 05:05 AM
John Strenk
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I use to run a manual choke but went back to an automatic choke. Other than being a great threat device, it made no difference.

I Just have to push down on the throttle a couple of times and crank 'er up. If it's only a week or so then it only takes a couple of seconds.

If you are having long cranking sessions to get it started you may want to start looking for leaks in the carb.

Between rust holes in the fuel lines, bad pumps and leaky carb gaskets, there are plenty of ways the fuel in the carb can drain out causing long cranking times to get fuel back into the carb.


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post #7 of 21 Old 09-27-2021, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eroeder View Post
For a CJ non-injected motor (232), what is the best technique to start a cold engine thatís been sitting a few days? Looking to see if I can reduce time cranking on starter.
Texas is hot.

Sitting for days can cause the fuel in the float bowl to evaporate.
I would test this by starting the Jeep on consecutive says. If it starts fine every day but cranks excessively after sitting a couple of days, that should be an indicator of fuel evaporation.

If evaporation is the issue, then you can either crank it a couple more seconds to get the fuel back in the bowl or prime it by squirting fuel down the bowl vent.

If you are having issues every day, I would check the choke, accelerator pump, carb leakage, and insure you are giving the throttle a jab or two prior to cranking.

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post #8 of 21 Old 09-27-2021, 07:14 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the info. I’ll give it a try today.

I was always wondering on how to tap to get choke to activate, or if you just pump foot to refill bowl. If I start every day, no issue. Only when bowl has evaporated then the cranking starts. I just want to baby my baby! 😉






Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepdaddy2000 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by eroeder View Post
For a CJ non-injected motor (232), what is the best technique to start a cold engine that’s been sitting a few days? Looking to see if I can reduce time cranking on starter.
Texas is hot.

Sitting for days can cause the fuel in the float bowl to evaporate.
I would test this by starting the Jeep on consecutive says. If it starts fine every day but cranks excessively after sitting a couple of days, that should be an indicator of fuel evaporation.

If evaporation is the issue, then you can either crank it a couple more seconds to get the fuel back in the bowl or prime it by squirting fuel down the bowl vent.

If you are having issues every day, I would check the choke, accelerator pump, carb leakage, and insure you are giving the throttle a jab or two prior to cranking.
Attached Thumbnails
6BF06E2D-F996-460B-BA00-B7078A4EC6FB_1632748463826.jpg  

r/
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post #9 of 21 Old 09-27-2021, 07:17 AM Thread Starter
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That’s at a cool mod!


Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEPFELLER View Post
Pump the gas pedal fully 2-3 times.

I pull my manual choke out while the gas pedal is down (this sorta unlocks the manual choke)

Then I start cranking!

I remove the automatic choke and I install my "own" manual chokes (kits from a parts store)

I WANT TO BE IN CHARGE OF WHEN THE CHOKE IS OFF OR ON!

You can also "crack it" as it warms up

Normally, a manual choke will not stick in a closed or partially closed position.

I reckon it might take a little time to remember to push it back in! Usually you will detect the engine holding back, then shove it in.

Sometimes I'll leave the choke open (button remains in)

He'll fire right up, then I drive him gently until he warms up, During that 1st 2 miles I don't jump into traffic or take chances. (of course you can open the choke some and he'll run better).

I have about 2 miles of lightly traveled road till I get to something major---I drive like granny---So not using the choke is nothing for me!

Or you can just sit at the house till he warms up.

-----JEEPFELLER

r/
Erich
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post #10 of 21 Old 09-27-2021, 07:27 AM
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My 360's carb tends to evaporate most of the fuel in the bowl after about a week of sitting. I usually crank the engine for about 10 seconds BEFORE I set the choke, just to get the fuel system primed. Then I fully depress the accelerator 2-3 times to set the choke and get a few pump shots of fuel into the intake. After that, she usually fires right up on the next crank.

Matt


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post #11 of 21 Old 09-27-2021, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eroeder View Post
Thank you all for the info. I’ll give it a try today.

I was always wondering on how to tap to get choke to activate, or if you just pump foot to refill bowl. If I start every day, no issue. Only when bowl has evaporated then the cranking starts. I just want to baby my baby! 😉
Pushing on the gas pedal doesn't fill the bowl. It takes fuel from the fuel bowl and pumps it into the throat of the carb into the engine. If the bowl is empty then no gas gets pumped.
Only cranking the engine will fill the fuel bowl.

If excessive heat is evaporating the engine, you can install a small electric fuel pump to automatically fill the bowl when you push a button.
I wouldn't run it directly to the ignition key because there would no way to turn it off if you have an accident. A push button will only run the pump as long as you hold the button in.
First I would make sure nothing else is wrong. I have heard something as simple as having the fuel filter inverted can drain the fuel bowl but I am not sure about this as i never had the fuel filter on wrong but it would make for a great experiment.

The choke is released when you push on the gas pedal and open the throttle, if the mechanism is dirty, it could be getting stuc and not allowing it to reach the proper position. They usually recommend cleaning the mechanism but don't lubricate it as that will accumulate dirt faster. It all works off of gravity.


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post #12 of 21 Old 09-27-2021, 10:40 AM
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I just went back and reviewed your 1st post.

"A few days" is unacceptable.

Your Jeep should be your daily driver.

This would keep you from asking unnecessary questions (notice I was "good" and didn't say "dumb or stupid")

If you have two, you must be responsible and give them equal time.

If you have triplets or more, hiring a nanny to help keep them healthy might be an option to consider.

------JEEPFELLER
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post #13 of 21 Old 09-27-2021, 11:37 AM
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I was taking someone for a ride in my jeep and they commented on how it didn't start right away. It had been sitting for a couple of weeks.

Some people don't remember the old days when cars were not fuel injected and so automatic to start. As I kid, I remember that we all had to crank the engines over much more than today's vehicles, use the choke and even open the air cleaner and use some starting fluid when they needed help.

Today, people just expect the engine to start after a push of the button - cars are a different beast today. Refined for the better I guess...

1972 CJ5 304 V8, 3 speed manual trans
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post #14 of 21 Old 09-27-2021, 05:45 PM
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There is a lot of correct and good info on this thread and some that is so so.

I started my first job in automotive in while still in High School in 1979. I took my very first Tune-up and Carburetor class in 1981 which was very comprehensive. I have taken several factory GM carb classes on specific models, some Honda and Toyota stuff. I was a driveability/electrical specialty tech for many years. Still worked on the rest of the car but driveability and electrical only goes to certain guys. I was that guy. It was the era of carburetors. I worked on several of them daily for years. I feel that I am qualified to answer.

Quote:
Press accelerator pedal to the floor slowly for a few seconds and then release. Crank the engine for a few seconds. Like maybe 5. If it did not start, let off key to run, press the accelerator pedal to the floor again. Restart.
This is my original reply in this thread. Let me elaborate on it a little more. When you press the accelerator pedal to the floor you allow the choke to set. Somebody that recommends manual chokes in this thread acknowledged that you still have to press the gas pedal to engage the manual choke. This is because the choke is connected to the fast idle cam linkage. If you do not press the gas pedal, the fast idle screw cannot climb up the progressive steps, it needs the accelerator open to get over the steps. So pressing the gas to the floor allows the choke to set.

The second thing that happens when you press the gas is the accelerator pump puts a squirt of fuel into the throat of the carb. The reason I say I push my gas pedal to the floor slowly for a few seconds, like 2 or 3 is the accelerator pump has a spring on top of its plunger. When it tries to squirt fuel into the throat of the carb it cannot fully deliver its full volume because it is working against the squirter size which is a restriction. It will not deliver its full volume in the blink of an eye but if held for a couple of seconds the spring on the top of the accelerator pump plunger will keep recovering and keep pushing fuel. If you look down the throat of a carb with the engine off and hit mash the throttle and watch the fuel squirt it will remain squirting after the throttle is pegged. This is the pump plunger spring doing its job.

I then said I crank for maybe 5 seconds. If my Jeep does not start in that time I know that fuel bowl was empty. It generally takes a couple of weeks for this to happen on mine but can be sooner in the summer and a lot of conditions matter. How hot was it the last time it was driven. How hot was it when it was parked. Was it outside in the sun or inside the barn in the shade, etc. Within 5 seconds or so my fuel pump has delivered fuel to the float bowl so if I press the gas to the floor again for a couple of seconds I will get that shot of fuel from the accelerator pump to start immediately on the next crank.

Some guys say that they pump the gas two or three times. There is a reason I do not and here it is. The accelerator pump circuit on a carb is pretty well designed to provide enough fuel to start the engine but NOT FLOOD the engine if used in one shot strokes as I have described. In colder weather, pumping the gas pedal a few times can flood an engine (gas foul spark plugs) and make it start hard or not start at all.

If I go out to my Jeep on a 70 degree day and cold start it I fully expect it to engage the choke and need it for a few to warm up and start correctly.

If I drove to the grocery store and came back out on a warm day it may or may not need some choke. It depends on how long I was in the store. I try to start first without giving it a squirt. Just turn the key to crank. If it fires up right away, good to go. If not. Let off the key, press the throttle to the floor but more quickly than when cold, and start.

Electric/automatic chokes are quite reliable and really do what they should quite well. A manual choke can be in the hands of the correct user. Unfortunately, I believe that somebody that needs to put a manual choke on a carb to dial it in is not that said user. The downside of not using a manual choke properly it too rich or too lean. Too rich fouls plugs, washes down cylinder ring lubrication, and carbons stuff up, dilutes your oil with gasoline, and if a catalytic converter is involved in carbons it up also. All of these are not good. The opposite, too lean. High cylinder temps, detonation, backfires, etc. I have seen this to the extent that positively can be attributed to a blown head gasket. Lean is mean for power. Too lean destroys stuff. It even melts pistons. This is where the saying comes from that an engine runs its best right before it blows up..... Yep. You hit that lean is mean jetting and then crossed the threshold just a bit with a tad too much timing or a wee bit too little fuel. That ***** is over before you know it with little warning.

Bottom line. I think I gave you the path to the least wear and tear on your beast. Some others did as well but some stuff needed to be clarified.

A proper working automatic choke is the only way to go.

EDIT: Yes you may have to be a little more in tune to your vehicle and how to start it vs new technology.

If you cannot fix it with a hammer then it has to be an electrical problem.
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post #15 of 21 Old 09-28-2021, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boojo35 View Post
There is a lot of correct and good info on this thread and some that is so so.

I started my first job in automotive in while still in High School in 1979. I took my very first Tune-up and Carburetor class in 1981 which was very comprehensive. I have taken several factory GM carb classes on specific models, some Honda and Toyota stuff. I was a drivability/electrical specialty tech for many years. Still worked on the rest of the car but drivability and electrical only goes to certain guys. I was that guy. It was the era of carburetors. I worked on several of them daily for years. I feel that I am qualified to answer.


This is my original reply in this thread. Let me elaborate on it a little more. When you press the accelerator pedal to the floor you allow the choke to set. Somebody that recommends manual chokes in this thread acknowledged that you still have to press the gas pedal to engage the manual choke. This is because the choke is connected to the fast idle cam linkage. If you do not press the gas pedal, the fast idle screw cannot climb up the progressive steps, it needs the accelerator open to get over the steps. So pressing the gas to the floor allows the choke to set.

The second thing that happens when you press the gas is the accelerator pump puts a squirt of fuel into the throat of the carb. The reason I say I push my gas pedal to the floor slowly for a few seconds, like 2 or 3 is the accelerator pump has a spring on top of its plunger. When it tries to squirt fuel into the throat of the carb it cannot fully deliver its full volume because it is working against the squirter size which is a restriction. It will not deliver its full volume in the blink of an eye but if held for a couple of seconds the spring on the top of the accelerator pump plunger will keep recovering and keep pushing fuel. If you look down the throat of a carb with the engine off and hit mash the throttle and watch the fuel squirt it will remain squirting after the throttle is pegged. This is the pump plunger spring doing its job.

I then said I crank for maybe 5 seconds. If my Jeep does not start in that time I know that fuel bowl was empty. It generally takes a couple of weeks for this to happen on mine but can be sooner in the summer and a lot of conditions matter. How hot was it the last time it was driven. How hot was it when it was parked. Was it outside in the sun or inside the barn in the shade, etc. Within 5 seconds or so my fuel pump has delivered fuel to the float bowl so if I press the gas to the floor again for a couple of seconds I will get that shot of fuel from the accelerator pump to start immediately on the next crank.

Some guys say that they pump the gas two or three times. There is a reason I do not and here it is. The accelerator pump circuit on a carb is pretty well designed to provide enough fuel to start the engine but NOT FLOOD the engine if used in one shot strokes as I have described. In colder weather, pumping the gas pedal a few times can flood an engine (gas foul spark plugs) and make it start hard or not start at all.

If I go out to my Jeep on a 70 degree day and cold start it I fully expect it to engage the choke and need it for a few to warm up and start correctly.

If I drove to the grocery store and came back out on a warm day it may or may not need some choke. It depends on how long I was in the store. I try to start first without giving it a squirt. Just turn the key to crank. If it fires up right away, good to go. If not. Let off the key, press the throttle to the floor but more quickly than when cold, and start.

Electric/automatic chokes are quite reliable and really do what they should quite well. A manual choke can be in the hands of the correct user. Unfortunately, I believe that somebody that needs to put a manual choke on a carb to dial it in is not that said user. The downside of not using a manual choke properly it too rich or too lean. Too rich fouls plugs, washes down cylinder ring lubrication, and carbons stuff up, dilutes your oil with gasoline, and if a catalytic converter is involved in carbons it up also. All of these are not good. The opposite, too lean. High cylinder temps, detonation, backfires, etc. I have seen this to the extent that positively can be attributed to a blown head gasket. Lean is mean for power. Too lean destroys stuff. It even melts pistons. This is where the saying comes from that an engine runs its best right before it blows up..... Yep. You hit that lean is mean jetting and then crossed the threshold just a bit with a tad too much timing or a wee bit too little fuel. That ***** is over before you know it with little warning.

Bottom line. I think I gave you the path to the least wear and tear on your beast. Some others did as well but some stuff needed to be clarified.

A proper working automatic choke is the only way to go.

EDIT: Yes you may have to be a little more in tune to your vehicle and how to start it vs new technology.
Excellent post !!


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