starting to spin a rear hub - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 16 Old 05-31-2020, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
oldschool74cj5
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Unhappy starting to spin a rear hub

hello

went muding yesterday. cleaned all up last night. today when i took a ride with the wife i felt the rear end act a little funny. almost feels like a rear wheel is trying to spin, and trying to get squirrely. i know it wasn't that because it was dry out and 33's 3.73 and a 258 wont really spin the wheel on dry pavement without really trying to. i was not on it really at all. so i guess its time to call moser.

a couple things if someone can check for me. i know my cj7 is a franken jeep. its registered a 83 because of the body is a 83. the frame and axles i believe are from a 80. making it a narrow track. my thing is before i pull apart or order the axles is. does any one know that the measurement from inside of brake plate to plate is? then i can verify that is actually a narrow track. im 99% it is but want to be 100% before ordering parts. im also going to try and find any numbers on the axle that will tell what it is.

oldschool

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post #2 of 16 Old 05-31-2020, 04:04 PM
Hurricane4
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Here is some info:

https://www.jeeptech.com/axle/amc20.html

http://certifiablejeep.com/widenarrow_differences.php

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post #3 of 16 Old 05-31-2020, 04:08 PM
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Here is another:

https://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/t...model-20-axle/

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post #4 of 16 Old 05-31-2020, 08:32 PM
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Wide track front dana 30 has the shocks mounted to the axle tube and narrow track mount to the spring plate. Wide track front shock mounts are about twice as tall as the narrow track mounts.

80 CJ-5, 74 CJ-6, 56 CJ-5
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post #5 of 16 Old 05-31-2020, 10:33 PM
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Spinning a hub is usually related to a decrease in the torque of the Axle Nut. This is massively torqued at 250 ftlbs to force the parts into each other (I stand on the end of an 18" bar, over 250 ftlbs if I jump up and down). When I have had them go it started with a creaking or clicking sound, as the parts start to separate and fret. If you have a long bar and the big socket needed (I have them in 3/4" drive, 1 5/16" or 33mm), it is worth checking the torque. If they are any less than super tight, they are slacking off. If you take it off and it looks perfect, you can reuse. As soon as they start distorting, you need a new hub or one piece axles.
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post #6 of 16 Old 06-01-2020, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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hello
well found the one i tightened when i bought it 2 years ago was a little loose again. so im pretty sure its going bad. unfor taking it all apart it wont be worth installing a omix or crown low quality shaft or hub. so i ordered the moser 1 piece. they are made in america so im happy about that. the cost was about the same as the imported ones. bought from summit for 345 with free shipping. being close to GA its normally a one to two day shipping.

last night while going through the internet there was a tread on here that showed someone actually made a paper gasket to go between the drum backing plate and the seal. unfortunately i cant find it again. i like that idea and was wondering how that actually worked out for them

oldschool
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post #7 of 16 Old 06-01-2020, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschool74cj5 View Post
hello
well found the one i tightened when i bought it 2 years ago was a little loose again. so im pretty sure its going bad. unfor taking it all apart it wont be worth installing a omix or crown low quality shaft or hub. so i ordered the moser 1 piece. they are made in america so im happy about that. the cost was about the same as the imported ones. bought from summit for 345 with free shipping. being close to GA its normally a one to two day shipping.

last night while going through the internet there was a tread on here that showed someone actually made a paper gasket to go between the drum backing plate and the seal. unfortunately i cant find it again. i like that idea and was wondering how that actually worked out for them

oldschool
I imagine a good paper gasket will help seal but I put on a liberal coat of RTV when I did my install in 2005 and haven't had any problems.
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post #8 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 11:04 AM
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Make certain to remove the thrust bock in the diff - if still there - before installing the Moser one piece axles.

The thrust block (some call it an axle spacer) will/may prevent axles from sliding in all the way. I think it
was there to begin with to prevent an axle from sliding into the differential in the event a hub came off.

#20 in link/diagram below:

https://www.4wd.com/b/replacement-pa...arts/_/N-clb40
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'61 CJ5, '63 CJ6, '78 CJ5, '79 CJ5 (Current), '79 CJ7 & '86 CJ7.
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post #9 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 11:06 AM
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Also RTV should be fine.

"The unbelievable we can do immediately . . . the impossible just takes a little longer."
My College Accounting Professor

"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts"
Winston Churchill

Jeeps I Have Owned in Year Order:
'61 CJ5, '63 CJ6, '78 CJ5, '79 CJ5 (Current), '79 CJ7 & '86 CJ7.
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post #10 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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hello
thanks hurricane. i was going to use the rtv but i kinda liked the idea of the paper gasket between the backing late and the seal. it would be so much cleaner while assembling. i do remember the thrust block in on the carrier. i know that when some were burning up bearings that was one of the problems. they set the bearing space sticking out one axle at a time. then when togethor it was too tight.
one thing i am going to do is make a drawing of the retaining ring for the bearing. the reason is you can get a set 9 bearing for about 20 bucks with the retainer. but the retainer is to big in stock form. the with the drawing i can turn down the diameter or length on a lathe to match the one in the kit. for the future. i am also going to make a grease tool for greasing the bearings once in a while. we have something like that at work for greasing some bearings on aircraft without removing or problems. it will be a 3 piece design. like a tool to remove bearings it will have two halfs that go around the bearing and retainer. then a ring will slide over those. screw the grease fitting in and grease away.will still have to remove the haft but just easier for the bearing under pressure.

oldschool
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post #11 of 16 Old 06-02-2020, 05:18 PM
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I remember reading on here about someone who drilled the AMC 20 axle housing - through the spacer - in two places - too and bottom of axle housing. Installed two grease fittings. When greasing - the lower fitting is removed and grease applied to the top fitting until you see all the old grease pushed out and new grease coming out of bottom hole. I think the lower fitting is then reinstalled and a squirt of grease is then applied to the lower fitting. Do a search on here or post a question.

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"Success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts"
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post #12 of 16 Old 06-04-2020, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane4 View Post
Make certain to remove the thrust bock in the diff - if still there - before installing the Moser one piece axles.

The thrust block (some call it an axle spacer) will/may prevent axles from sliding in all the way. I think it
was there to begin with to prevent an axle from sliding into the differential in the event a hub came off.

#20 in link/diagram below:

https://www.4wd.com/b/replacement-pa...arts/_/N-clb40
The thrust block in the stock 2 piece axle setup transfers axle end thrust between the left and right axle bearngs. Bearings are oriented differently than in a 1 piece setup. There's a .004-.008" end play spec that must be adhered to when installing axles or bearings.
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post #13 of 16 Old 06-06-2020, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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hello

well unfortunately the rains are in fl for the next couple of days. so i spent my day on my old atlas lathe making a block for pressing on the bearing and retainer. i had a chunk of 2-1/2 diameter steel bar just laying around. also modified my bearing race install tool for installing the seal. i undercut the flat side of the race install tool, then made a 1-3/8 stub that bolts on to the it to hold the seal centered on the tool. this mimics the original plastic seal install tool that the manual calls for. also measured the retainer. it looks like they sanded one side so it is 7/16 wide. mocked up the seal,spacer,retainer and bearing. it looks like there is only about 1/16 inch between the retainer and seal. so not much space in there. i talked to moser yesterday about a couple of questions i had.

1) if you have to adjust the spacer to get .020-.080 grind or machine off the inner edge that presses against the seal.
2) the .020-.080 is measured at the outer edge of the bearing to the housing.

i have researched the replacement parts. the 2 seals are regular amc20 wheel bearing seals, the set 9 bearing is from the 87-89 wrangler dana 35 wheel bearing. its the retainer that is machined to fit. its 2" outer diameter by 7/16 wide. since its a press fit DO NOT TOUCH THE INNER DIAMETER. of course the spacer is also not a jeep part. im pretty sure its the same as crown one.

once most of this rain stops in a couple days i will pull apart. my plan is to install the bearing so it is about .030 sticking out of the housing. the important part is going to be having the seal all the way installed. since the seal is what the spacer and bearing are pushed against when you install the backing plate. i was going to measure the depth of the hole then the width of the seal. then i will know what measurement the seal should be after installing the seal.

oldschool
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post #14 of 16 Old 06-08-2020, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
oldschool74cj5
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hello

made some progress today. the rains stopped here for most of the day. just humid as could be. the rear axle came apart pretty easy. only the passenger side i needed to use the drum as a slide hammer to pull it out. had to clean a little bit of rust out of the bore areas. used a little fine emery paper to clean it out. there were a few little issues to address to fit the parts.

1) the smaller OD on the spacer was the same size as the bore was in the housing when i measured it. so put in the lathe and used a very very fine mill file and emery paper to remove about .0015 off the smaller outer diameter. then it would slide in snugly but manageable. it still fit tighter then the bearing in the bearing bore.

2) when i installed the oil seal. i measured the space that was left and figured out i needed to remove .040 off of the end of smaller diameter on the spacer. that sits against the oil seal. so back to the lathe and turned off .040. with the bearing installed in the bore and i get a .040 measurement which is what i was shooting for. the bad part of machining the spacer down is it closes the gap between the retainer and inner oil seal to about .010 of inch. thinking about it after i fit both sides. next time i think i would have rather installed .040 of shims between the housing and the backing plate. it would accomplish the same thing but not close the inner gap between the retainer and seal. it would be so much easier for someone without a lathe. filing and grinding can be a pain to keep the ends parallel.

i took a large fine mill file and checked the ends were flat and removed a couple of small nicks on the flat.

hopefully tomorrow i can press on the bearings on the new axles and get them installed in the housing. before i install i still need to take the original floating thrust block out of the diff.

oldschool
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post #15 of 16 Old 06-08-2020, 10:43 PM
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The compression (preload) on the outer bearing race between the backing plate and spacer prevents the bearing from spinning in the housing bore. The bearing is actually a slip fit . Remember that this is an aftermarket fix. The housing was not machined for that bearing. The OEM bearing used with the stock 2 piece axle is a tighter fit in the housing bore..
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