SOA to SUA - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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post #16 of 27 Old 03-04-2020, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
thebobmannh
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Originally Posted by MetalMountainGoat View Post
I can almost guarantee you that the castor angle isn't right in the front, and no matter what you do to that steering, it will be dangerous to drive this thing at any sort of speed. If the castor angle is incorrect, then there is no way around doing to some welding because the perches will have to be adjusted, so while you are at it, you may as well pull everything out from under it and swap it back to SUA.

It really isn't that hard to weld the perches on. I know you said you had no welding experience, but someone with only little could pull it off with a cheapo harbor freight welder (I did). If anything, pull axles, take it to local muffler/fab shop and have them weld on the new perches with the correct castor angle in the front. After that, throw the axles back under there in SUA configuration.
Thanks. I'm already buying welding equipment and watching youtube videos so I can teach myself some basic techniques and get this done. Might as well do it right. The whole reason I bought this thing is to get my hands dirty and learn some stuff, so I just gotta suck it up and do it.

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post #17 of 27 Old 03-04-2020, 07:23 PM
StoneTower
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I know you said you don't need that radical of a rig, but it has good tires and if the gear ratio is correct for those tires, I would fix what is wrong and drive it. There are some obvious things that are wrong. The drag link is the first that I see. There are lots of people here that have SOA and 35" tires and are very happy. It might be easier to fix what is wrong and get it driving the way you want rather than spending the money to re-gear and buying new tires and spending all the time and money on labor that you will need to do to put it back. Before you make your decision, maybe you should take it to a 4wd shop or to a Jeep club and see what others have to say about what you have to work with.
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post #18 of 27 Old 03-05-2020, 06:48 AM
NormWild
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Originally Posted by thebobmannh View Post
Here's a full pic of the Jeep as it currently stands (on 35's). Also a pic of the driveshaft.

(I know a lot of people are probably thinking "doesn't he even know what he has" and hte answer is mostly no, I just got this thing for pretty short money, and have driven it all of twice, and it's winter in NH and I don't have a garage so I haven't been able to spend much time exploring, so I'm just trying to do as much research as I can now before spring. So I appreciate everyon'es patience and input with my basic questions)
She's up there alright! Looking at where your rocker intersects the top of the rear tire I don't think a 33" tire would look quite right. Plus those look like narrow rears, probably best to drop down to 2.5". Find a local welder/fabricator and take the rears to them off the Jeep. They should only charge a few buck to weld on the perches.

You won't get enough penetration on a 110v Lowes/Home Depot welder for that job, so would leave it to an expert. Pretty critical weld you are dealing with there.

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post #19 of 27 Old 03-05-2020, 07:42 AM
schardein
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You will be much happier and the Jeep will drive so much better with a 2.5" SUA lift and smaller tires.

A question you might want to ask yourself- are you in this for the long haul? It will be a substantial amount of work, time & some money to get it done, but worth it if you plan to keep & drive it.

1983 CJ7, 5.3, NV3550, D300 4:1, Fr D44 Ox air, Rr D44 OX cable, 4.56, 35" Falken A/T3W on beadlocks
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post #20 of 27 Old 03-05-2020, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NormWild View Post
She's up there alright! Looking at where your rocker intersects the top of the rear tire I don't think a 33" tire would look quite right. Plus those look like narrow rears, probably best to drop down to 2.5". Find a local welder/fabricator and take the rears to them off the Jeep. They should only charge a few buck to weld on the perches.

You won't get enough penetration on a 110v Lowes/Home Depot welder for that job, so would leave it to an expert. Pretty critical weld you are dealing with there.
Ah. OK. Thanks. Still a good excuse for me to learn how to weld. I think my plan of action is to get everything set up, maybe tack the perches in place, and call a local fab place that can do on-site "real" welding (there are a couple) to do the real work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schardein View Post
You will be much happier and the Jeep will drive so much better with a 2.5" SUA lift and smaller tires.

A question you might want to ask yourself- are you in this for the long haul? It will be a substantial amount of work, time & some money to get it done, but worth it if you plan to keep & drive it.
I absolutely plan on keeping this for a long time, barring like, the frame cracking in half or something. The engine is brand new (one of the reasons I bought it), and it should last me a good long time, and has just enough things wrong with it to keep me busy
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post #21 of 27 Old 03-05-2020, 08:05 AM
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Ok I'm in a similar boat. No shop and very little $ but hers some things you can do that cost little. First, find out what ratio you have in your axles. If they've been changed to a ratio you don't want, and depending on your local market it might be easier to find factory axles with the perches and ratio you want already. Changing gears is expensive and you could sell your old axles for what you payed for the new ones. Second option is before you weld anything structural, I'd start with a less crucial project to learn to weld on. Spring perches aren't hard but I wouldn't want my day ruined a year down the road to find out you didn't have enough penetration and your axles all twisted up. When you get that far measure 10 times, then get someone who's familiar to come over and measure another 3 times at least all before you touch the power switch on your welder.
Just my .02
Shawn

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post #22 of 27 Old 03-05-2020, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by kd7oir View Post
Ok I'm in a similar boat. No shop and very little $ but hers some things you can do that cost little. First, find out what ratio you have in your axles. If they've been changed to a ratio you don't want, and depending on your local market it might be easier to find factory axles with the perches and ratio you want already. Changing gears is expensive and you could sell your old axles for what you payed for the new ones. Second option is before you weld anything structural, I'd start with a less crucial project to learn to weld on. Spring perches aren't hard but I wouldn't want my day ruined a year down the road to find out you didn't have enough penetration and your axles all twisted up. When you get that far measure 10 times, then get someone who's familiar to come over and measure another 3 times at least all before you touch the power switch on your welder.
Just my .02
Shawn
Yes, measure the castor angle on the front axle several times one day, then come back out and have someone else measure it the next day, then measure it one more time on the 3rd day, then burn it in. That angle directly corresponds to how well your jeep will drive. You only have about 3 degrees to play with when setting it up, so do your research. I set mine up perfectly for 2.5" of lift (may have been more luck than skill) and it drivers straight as an arrow
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post #23 of 27 Old 03-05-2020, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MetalMountainGoat View Post
I can almost guarantee you that the castor angle isn't right in the front
I can almost guarantee that you don't have enough information from the pictures posted to make that assumption. There's only one picture where a knuckle is visible and it's pretty easy to see that the upper part is tilted rearward. Beyond that, there's no way to tell what the current caster is.

Lifting alone doesn't change caster. If the spring over perches were added to be parallel to the spring under perches, the fact that the axle is further from the frame than it used to be doesn't change caster from the stock configuration. The shackles don't appear to be muck longer, if at all, than stock shackles. That will do far more to change caster than lift from a spring or going to spring over.

Unless you have a really high degree of eyeball calibration, that's just a spitball to "guarantee" that the caster is out of spec and it will wander all over. I have two CJs that are spring over and you can let go of the steering wheel at 55mph with confidence that it's not going anywhere but straight ahead.
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post #24 of 27 Old 03-12-2020, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CSP View Post
I can almost guarantee that you don't have enough information from the pictures posted to make that assumption. There's only one picture where a knuckle is visible and it's pretty easy to see that the upper part is tilted rearward. Beyond that, there's no way to tell what the current caster is.

Lifting alone doesn't change caster. If the spring over perches were added to be parallel to the spring under perches, the fact that the axle is further from the frame than it used to be doesn't change caster from the stock configuration. The shackles don't appear to be muck longer, if at all, than stock shackles. That will do far more to change caster than lift from a spring or going to spring over.

Unless you have a really high degree of eyeball calibration, that's just a spitball to "guarantee" that the caster is out of spec and it will wander all over. I have two CJs that are spring over and you can let go of the steering wheel at 55mph with confidence that it's not going anywhere but straight ahead.
Congratulations, you know how to setup an SOA lift. The other 85-90% of people who do an SOA to one of these Jeeps think it is a cheap and easy way to get a lot of lift. They never consider that steering geometry, axle wrap, castor angle, etc. need to be looked at when doing this.

I don't need calibrated eyeballs to see that the SOA setup on this jeep is more than likely incorrect. The wacked up steering alone shows enough.

All I was trying to do was stress that the OP check the castor angle no matter what he decides to do because if it is wrong, this Jeep will not drive straight down the road. Didn't need your high and mighty comments about how good your two Jeeps with SOA drive to let this guy know to check his castor angle.
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post #25 of 27 Old 03-12-2020, 07:12 AM Thread Starter
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Back on topic, someone earlier suggested that it looked like in addition to the spring-over it looks like someone did a YJ conversion. I measured the front springs yesterday and they are only 2" (not 2.5") which, aside from length, is the big difference I believe. So I likely do NOT have a YJ conversion in that case, correct?
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post #26 of 27 Old 03-12-2020, 07:23 AM
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Correct, not YJ
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post #27 of 27 Old 03-12-2020, 08:09 PM
CSP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalMountainGoat View Post
All I was trying to do was stress that the OP check the castor angle no matter what he decides to do because if it is wrong, this Jeep will not drive straight down the road. Didn't need your high and mighty comments about how good your two Jeeps with SOA drive to let this guy know to check his castor angle.
You went way beyond making a suggestion and you know it. The only high and mighty is assuming that you can tell what the steering angles are because of the presence of a bent drag link and a dropped pitman arm.
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