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trailhead2004 03-25-2019 02:04 PM

Question About Differences Between 1974 CJ5 and Newer CJ5s
 
I have my eye on a 1974 CJ5, sort of a barn find. Looks to have a stock 304 in it, in fact other than the seats and a few minor mods, it looks to be pretty original.

I have spent a fair amount of time learning about the later model CJs, about 1980 and newer. But I know very little about the older models. I do know there was a body/frame change around 1972, and I’ve noticed a few differences on the dash panel and the clutch linkage. Looks like it should be a T18 trans. Would axles be Dana 30 front and AMC 20 rear?

Can someone give me a quick primer on the major differences, or maybe point me to a thread? I’m just trying to anticipate how much of a learning curve there will be if I get this Jeep.

schardein 03-25-2019 03:24 PM

1972-75 are different than 71 and earlier and 76 and later.

Still use 1 3/4" wide springs front and rear, like pre 71.
Dana 30 front, Dana 44 rear 30 spline one piece axles, narrow track, drum brakes front and rear
Single wiper motor mounted outside the w/s frame
Skinny steering column with turn signal switch clamped to it externally.
All the CJ5s of this vintage had tailgates
These are long nose, the front fenders are longer than 71 and older to accommodate the inline 6 cylinder engine
Lap belts
Brake master is mounted on the firewall "like normal", 71 and older was on the frame under the pedals
Hanging brake and gas pedals, versus thru the floor on 71 and older
I don't think AC was an option until 76

HAZCAT 03-25-2019 03:52 PM

My first Jeep at 16 was a '75 CJ5 Renegade Levi Edition with the 304, 3 speed, soft top. Manual brakes and steering

Fourtrail 03-25-2019 04:32 PM

Also, it still has straight frame rails, they do not flare out under the passenger compartment like 76+ models.

trailhead2004 03-25-2019 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schardein (Post 40564429)
1972-75 are different than 71 and earlier and 76 and later.

All the CJ5s of this vintage had tailgates

Not calling BS here Schardein, just questioning. This CJ does not have a tailgate and it doesn't look like it has been modified.

I did get a look at the data plate on the dash panel and it talks of meeting all the requirements as of the date of manufacture in 1974. I forget what the date is, I'm sure I could drive by and take another look.

But thank you very much for the info. It sounds like it isn't all that different an animal versus looking at 1971 and before.

Thank you everyone.

RiverandSand 03-25-2019 05:06 PM

This site earlycj5.com has lots of good info about the differences.

trailhead2004 03-25-2019 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiverandSand (Post 40564555)
This site earlycj5.com has lots of good info about the differences.

Thank you RiverandSand. I'm definitely going to go check it out again. I'm trying to catch the owner again and it isn't easy.

only in a jeep cj 03-25-2019 05:31 PM

My 75 CJ-6 is a no tailgate as well. I believe the 72 to 75 were standard with tailgates and had non tailgates as an option. Then in 76 the option went away of course.

schardein 03-25-2019 06:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by trailhead2004 (Post 40564541)
Not calling BS here Schardein, just questioning. This CJ does not have a tailgate and it doesn't look like it has been modified.

I did get a look at the data plate on the dash panel and it talks of meeting all the requirements as of the date of manufacture in 1974. I forget what the date is, I'm sure I could drive by and take another look.

But thank you very much for the info. It sounds like it isn't all that different an animal versus looking at 1971 and before.

Thank you everyone.

Yep, I stand corrected. I think these are 71s, but apparently tailgates were optional 72-75 also.

CSP 03-25-2019 09:29 PM

My '73 has no tailgate, but the '72 and 75 do.

The windshield frame is 4" wider at the top than '76 and up and stands up more vertically.

The tub is different in the firewall and front seat areas. Wiring harnesses didn't get a fusebox until '75. Earlier years have inline fuses.

There are quite a few '76 and up parts that fit these, but aren't usually listed as fitting by retailers. There is a bit of a learning curve to knowing what fits and what doesn't.

jeepdaddy2000 03-25-2019 11:08 PM

A bit more info:
Open channel frame rails. They are prone to cracking around the spring hangers.
The rear axle is centered.
Rear axles are flanged.
72 used a cable clutch, all others had linkage.
Same body tub as the 55-71 CJ's, however, the frame was extended in front and the hood and fenders are longer.
T14 transmission(I6). T15 transmission(V8)
Quote:

I’m just trying to anticipate how much of a learning curve there will be if I get this Jeep.
A bit more refined than the 71 and earlier but just as simple. Much easier to work on than later models due to the lack of most of the emissions.

bob4703 03-26-2019 06:54 AM

My 74 has a tailgate. I often wonder if the convenience is worth all the rattling noise from the chains and the gate itself.

The tub is the early CJ5 style that was upgraded in the late 1960s to remove the gas tank from under the driver's seat and moved to the rear frame area. It is more like a 1950's truck and less like a car--a plus for me. I used parts for a 1971 model to rebuild the steering column. It has the longer wheel base of later CJ5s to accommodate the AMC engines. As stated above the wiring sucks.

The engine came with points type distributor which isn't a problem for me as I grew up changing and adjusting points. It has fewer parts to fail. Upgrading isn't hard. I just chose not to do it.

It has 11" drum brakes on all four. You can upgrade to discs. Mine weighs less than 2700 lbs. and I once had a 75 GTO that weighed almost a thousand pounds more and had 9" drums--went a lot faster than a CJ5 too. On dry roads it stops from reasonable speeds. 65 MPH is my maximum speed.

The cool factor is neat too. We belong to a Jeep club whose members drive all types of Jeeps. We have a monthly cruise in during the warmer months. Our 74 is usually the oldest Jeep in attendance, unless my friend Charles brings his 74 which is 2 months older. We park side by side.

schardein 03-26-2019 07:37 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob4703 (Post 40565085)
My 74 has a tailgate. I often wonder if the convenience is worth all the rattling noise from the chains and the gate itself.

The tub is the early CJ5 style that was upgraded in the late 1960s to remove the gas tank from under the driver's seat and moved to the rear frame area. It is more like a 1950's truck and less like a car--a plus for me. I used parts for a 1971 model to rebuild the steering column. It has the longer wheel base of later CJ5s to accommodate the AMC engines. As stated above the wiring sucks.

The engine came with points type distributor which isn't a problem for me as I grew up changing and adjusting points. It has fewer parts to fail. Upgrading isn't hard. I just chose not to do it.

It has 11" drum brakes on all four. You can upgrade to discs. Mine weighs less than 2700 lbs. and I once had a 75 GTO that weighed almost a thousand pounds more and had 9" drums--went a lot faster than a CJ5 too. On dry roads it stops from reasonable speeds. 65 MPH is my maximum speed.

The cool factor is neat too. We belong to a Jeep club whose members drive all types of Jeeps. We have a monthly cruise in during the warmer months. Our 74 is usually the oldest Jeep in attendance, unless my friend Charles brings his 74 which is 2 months older. We park side by side.

On my 67, I ended up removing the tailgate chains and bolting the tailgate shut. Got tired of the rattling and never used it anyway after I put my Jeepbox in.

67 still had the gas tank under the seat. I actually liked it. I would pull up to the pump, and gas up without even getting out of the Jeep. I was in Hawaii at the time, pull in with the rumbling Buick V6 & headers straight into glass packs, no top, windshield down, wearing my board shorts and sunglasses, fuel up without getting out. Everyone would just stare, they couldn't help it.

I converted to the 11" brakes all around. Not power brakes but would stop like it had them, just had to push harder.

No steering wheel lock on the skinny columns. I'd shut the Jeep off two blocks from my house and coast down, turn into the slightly uphill driveway and coast to a perfect stop just like this pic.

trailhead2004 03-26-2019 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schardein (Post 40565133)
On my 67, I ended up removing the tailgate chains and bolting the tailgate shut. Got tired of the rattling and never used it anyway after I put my Jeepbox in.

67 still had the gas tank under the seat. I actually liked it. I would pull up to the pump, and gas up without even getting out of the Jeep. I was in Hawaii at the time, pull in with the rumbling Buick V6 & headers straight into glass packs, no top, windshield down, wearing my board shorts and sunglasses, fuel up without getting out. Everyone would just stare, they couldn't help it.

I converted to the 11" brakes all around. Not power brakes but would stop like it had them, just had to push harder.

No steering wheel lock on the skinny columns. I'd shut the Jeep off two blocks from my house and coast down, turn into the slightly uphill driveway and coast to a perfect stop just like this pic.

Sweet Jeep! :thumbsup:

cj5chic 03-26-2019 08:32 AM

My 1980 CJ5 doesn't have a tailgate. I don't know if I should be jealous or not🤔

John Strenk 03-26-2019 11:40 AM

Sometimes I would like to add a fuel tank under the driver seat just like my 64 jeep had.
Just cut out that opening and put in a tank.

Then I think about what would happen with a side impact,,,

trailhead2004 03-26-2019 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj5chic (Post 40565197)
My 1980 CJ5 doesn't have a tailgate. I don't know if I should be jealous or not🤔

I'm trying to figure out if one of the PO's welded mine up. There is a bent piece of cross-broke sheet metal where the tailgate should be and it doesn't look like it was factory.

jeepdaddy2000 03-26-2019 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob4703 (Post 40565085)
My 74 has a tailgate. I often wonder if the convenience is worth all the rattling noise from the chains and the gate itself.

My 71 Ren II came without a tailgate. I became so disgusted with having to loft stuff over the rear of the Jeep that I wound up swapping the tub for an older one off a 68. In retrospect, had I known the worth of the original body, I would have left well enough alone....:frown2:

bob4703 03-27-2019 07:57 AM

Despite what I said about the noise of the rattling tailgate chains I like and use mine. I have a spare tire mounted to it so I have to remove the spare to drop the tailgate. Did you know that with the tailgate dropped and no back seat you can fit a washing machine in the box in the bed?

Does anyone know where I can get the hose like covering for the chains? Tailgate chains are another throwback to the 1950s' truck look.

The prototype of the original CJ5 was the M138A used by the military from the early 50s through the early 70s. It did not have a tailgate or at least all that I remember didn't.

Yesterday my son had his inspection on the house he is buying. The plumber who did the work was there and as he was leaving asked about my Jeep. He told me had a 72 Renegade and was thinking about selling it. He took me to look at it. Nice Jeep with a 304, original paint, and very little rust. And it doesn't have a tailgate!

trailhead2004 03-27-2019 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob4703 (Post 40566429)
Despite what I said about the noise of the rattling tailgate chains I like and use mine. I have a spare tire mounted to it so I have to remove the spare to drop the tailgate. Did you know that with the tailgate dropped and no back seat you can fit a washing machine in the box in the bed?

Does anyone know where I can get the hose like covering for the chains? Tailgate chains are another throwback to the 1950s' truck look.

The prototype of the original CJ5 was the M138A used by the military from the early 50s through the early 70s. It did not have a tailgate or at least all that I remember didn't.

Yesterday my son had his inspection on the house he is buying. The plumber who did the work was there and as he was leaving asked about my Jeep. He told me had a 72 Renegade and was thinking about selling it. He took me to look at it. Nice Jeep with a 304, original paint, and very little rust. And it doesn't have a tailgate!

My M101-A1 trailer has a sort of canvas cover over the tailgate chains. A shop that makes awnings or outdoor/boat upholstery should be able to make something for you. Think of a sewn canvas tube. I don't have any pics right now, but if you have any questions let me know and I can get some pics tonight.

The thing I like about having an upholstery shop do it is they could probably find you a good complementary color, or at least you could go black. Because black goes with everything.

CSP 03-27-2019 01:04 PM

I would think that any of the places that sell parts for old Fords and Chevys that also used chains on the tailgate would be a good place to look for chain covers.

trailhead2004 03-27-2019 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSP (Post 40566957)
I would think that any of the places that sell parts for old Fords and Chevys that also used chains on the tailgate would be a good place to look for chain covers.

Assuming they're the same length.

JoonHoss 03-27-2019 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob4703 (Post 40566429)
Despite what I said about the noise of the rattling tailgate chains I like and use mine...

Does anyone know where I can get the hose like covering for the chains? ...

Here you go

http://bfy.tw/MxLV

:wave:

Hoss

trailhead2004 03-27-2019 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoonHoss (Post 40567343)
Here you go

http://bfy.tw/MxLV

:wave:

Hoss

Not sure what that link was, Hoss, but it went somewhere funky.

trailhead

JoonHoss 03-27-2019 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trailhead2004 (Post 40567385)
Not sure what that link was, Hoss, but it went somewhere funky.

trailhead

Its correct, just a 'funner' way of posting a link. ;)

I have restored a few stepside '55-'59 Chev/GMC trucks, the tailgate chain covers are easy to find, that link will take you to many of the options available.

That said, I find for everything other than a show truck, I like a section or two of heater hose to cover the chain. If using one, drill a hole in the bottom, but better to use two short sections. Easy, cheap, and cut to fit. Usually pretty quiet as well.

Alternately, you can score a cheap set of lap belts in the junk yard, and install one end on each of the tailgate and fenderwell. Use the button to release, cinch down to quite them.

HTH

Hoss

texasdave 03-27-2019 08:08 PM

My 73 has a tailgate, 304 T-15 xmsn Dana 20 transfer case Dana 44 rear Dana 30 front

trailhead2004 03-27-2019 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasdave (Post 40567469)
My 73 has a tailgate, 304 T-15 xmsn Dana 20 transfer case Dana 44 rear Dana 30 front

Which leads to a confirmation question.

I have read that a Dana 30 front and Dana 44 rear are standard with a Dana 20 transfer case for this year. To the best of your knowledge is this statement true?

bob4703 03-28-2019 06:47 AM

Thanks to all! What's this Google y'all keep mentioning? JoonHoss Thanks for the demo. I've always had appreciation of your sense of humor. I still have a Tshirt that says "I only had one in dog beers!"

A canvas cover would quieten the rattle, but wouldn't have the eye appeal of the original black rubber covers. I also wonder if the canvas would be as flexible as the rubber.When I asked the question I just figured one of y'all would know someone who has a roll and has been selling by the foot since 1947.

You would think that that the guy who likes the intermediate Jeep because the cockpit retains the 1950s truck look would think about looking places that sells parts for 1950s trucks. Well I did and found model specific chains with covers. I did find covers for Jeeps, but were red and gray. When I unearth the original chains I may just use commercial heat shrink tubing.

Again thanks for the suggestions and happy opening day!

schardein 03-28-2019 09:26 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I seem to recall reading that HMMWV tailgate chains were a good replacement and come with a rubber cover. I don't know what they cost or how available they are. Perhaps an option if your chains are missing or in bad shape.

JoonHoss 03-28-2019 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trailhead2004 (Post 40567493)
Which leads to a confirmation question.

I have read that a Dana 30 front and Dana 44 rear are standard with a Dana 20 transfer case for this year. To the best of your knowledge is this statement true?

My '73 had a 304, T15, Dana20 t-case, and Dana30/44 combo (with factory 1-piece rear axles), and though resto-modded, was all original drivetrain as far as I could tell.

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/memb...sc-pic-230.jpg

Also, it had a tailgate.



Hoss

CSP 03-28-2019 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trailhead2004 (Post 40566993)
Assuming they're the same length.

Taller Chevy/Ford tailgate would mean longer rubber cover if anything. Enter knife/scissors/other cutting apparatus. :D

texasdave 03-28-2019 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trailhead2004 (Post 40567493)
Which leads to a confirmation question.

I have read that a Dana 30 front and Dana 44 rear are standard with a Dana 20 transfer case for this year. To the best of your knowledge is this statement true?

I'm not exactly sure when AMC started using the AMC 20 rear end. I do know that sometimes there is a dark hole finding certain parts. You can find up to 1972 and then 1976 an up.

JoonHoss 03-28-2019 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasdave (Post 40568507)
I'm not exactly sure when AMC started using the AMC 20 rear end...

Pretty sure the AMC model 20 rear was '76-up

Hoss

CSP 03-28-2019 09:50 PM

Any '72-75 will have a Dana 44 rear, Dana 30 front and the Dana 20 tcase if it still has its factory parts. In those years the standard gear ratio was 3.73 with 4.27 as an option.

The AMC20 wasn't used until '76 for any of the Jeep branded vehicles. AMC cars had them long before then. My dad has a '66 Rambler Ambassador (ordered it new) that has the AMC 20. The weird thing on that car is the driveshaft is enclosed in a tube.

HAZCAT 03-29-2019 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoonHoss (Post 40568543)
Pretty sure the AMC model 20 rear was '76-up

Hoss

Yes except don't forget the very last CJs in '86 had the Dana 44 rear end again. About mid year or so when AMC ran out of the Corporate 20 rear ends and knew they were not using it in the soon to be released YJ Wrangler so got Dana to ship them 44s to finish the line production.

trailhead2004 03-29-2019 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAZCAT (Post 40569061)
Yes except don't forget the very last CJs in '86 had the Dana 44 rear end again. About mid year or so when AMC ran out of the Corporate 20 rear ends and knew they were not using it in the soon to be released YJ Wrangler so got Dana to ship them 44s to finish the line production.

Would those be wide track or narrow track 44s?

JoonHoss 03-29-2019 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HAZCAT (Post 40569061)
Yes except don't forget the very last CJs in '86 had the Dana 44 rear end again...

Correct!

Hoss

HAZCAT 03-29-2019 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trailhead2004 (Post 40569095)
Would those be wide track or narrow track 44s?

Wide track. All 82-84 CJ7s are wide track. The '86 CJ was the one I wanted since I was 16 (which was 1986) as it could be found with a 44, was wide track and the last year of the CJ. I have owned almost every version of the CJ at some point in my life except the Dana 44 '86 (they always sold before I could buy them), CJ3B, CJ8 Scrambler, and Tuxedo Park model (though the hood on my CJ6 is from a Tuxedo Park model and still has the holes from the badges). Have never owned a CJ with the Perkins diesel either.

only in a jeep cj 03-29-2019 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trailhead2004 (Post 40569095)
Would those be wide track or narrow track 44s?

Wide track.

Direct swap out with a wide track Model 20.
Even uses the same brakes and drums.

But it does have its own spring plates / U bolts as the tubes are bigger. They look just like the 20 plates but with bigger holes and spacing. Always try to get those along with the axle.

jeepdaddy2000 03-29-2019 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSP (Post 40568643)
The weird thing on that car is the driveshaft is enclosed in a tube.

The tube actually pushed the car through the transmission. The rear axle only had coils to carry weight and a panhard rod to keep the body centered. I have a 63 classic 770 in the yard with that exact setup.


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