Phoenix decals - JeepForum.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 06:40 AM Thread Starter
gazzo
Registered User
 
gazzo's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Fremantle
Posts: 1,702
Phoenix decals

Getting to the pointy end of my rebuild and decided to have a crack at putting on some of those Phoenix Graphics "oranges" decals. Started with the least conspicuous area, rear corner near the fuel filler and sure enough I f%$ked it up.

They say on their "instruction" sheet to leave for 3 hours to allow the adhesive to bond properly.

Two things with that:
1. I had to get home and didn't fancy coming back to the shop in three hours and
2. I didn't fancy leaving the very sticky backing sheet on my new paint overnight.
Oh, and 3. I'm very impatient.

Anyway the decal almost fell off as I was pulling of the backing sheet and, strangely enough, some of the adhesive from the backing sheet stayed on the decal itself. Not real happy with my efforts so far.

has anyone applied these decals before and if so did you wait 3 hours and were happy with the result?

gazzo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 07:05 AM
Bobs85Reny
Registered User
 
Bobs85Reny's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wayne
Posts: 1,025
I had to redo my hood after an engine fire. With care and patience it turned out very well. Mine were the orange stripes. Its not an easy job. It really helps to have 2 people so one can help hold while the other one applies. If any of the glue comes off on the decal its only like a rubber cement that comes off relatively easy.

Told my girl I just had to forget her, Rather buy me a new cartburettor,
So she made tracks sayin' ths is the end now, Cars don't talk back they're just four wheeled friends now
"Queen"
Bobs85Reny is offline  
post #3 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 07:08 AM
Bobs85Reny
Registered User
 
Bobs85Reny's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wayne
Posts: 1,025
I also waited about a month for my paint to fully cure before i applied them as well. I wouldn't recommend it on fresh paint just my 2c

Told my girl I just had to forget her, Rather buy me a new cartburettor,
So she made tracks sayin' ths is the end now, Cars don't talk back they're just four wheeled friends now
"Queen"
Bobs85Reny is offline  
 
post #4 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 07:19 AM
walkerhoundvm
Registered User
 
walkerhoundvm's Avatar
1981 CJ8 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Big Cholla
Posts: 3,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazzo View Post
Oh, and 3. I'm very impatient.
You know, as many times as I should've learned that lesson, I haven't yet. Just this weekend I couldn't wait to start the Jeep after replacing the valve cover gasket and I couldn't be bothered to buy the best tools for the job. Well, another $40 gasket and $50 in tools and better hardware and I've learned that lesson yet again. The only sure thing is that I'll forget soon enough.
walkerhoundvm is offline  
post #5 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 08:31 AM
keith460
Web Wheeler
 
keith460's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Doylestown, PA
Posts: 9,275
Use lots of water gel solution so you can move the decals around if needed. Also, the decals have pressure sensitive adhesive so install them lightly until you have it in the correct position.

Patience, patience, patience.... without it you WILL F'up.






.
1984 CJ-7 Renegade
__________________
keith460 is offline  
post #6 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 09:36 AM
DucST4
Registered User
 
DucST4's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Colbert, GA
Posts: 153
At work, when applying our decals, to get proper adhesion, we heat the surface with a torch. Don't cook the surface, just warm to the touch. We started doing this on plastic surfaces and then discovered it works very well on metal surfaces too. We pull the backing off immediately. With the longer decals, we start in the middle and squeegy as we go out to the ends. By the time your finished, you'll get the knack and doing it.

Don't rush it!!! Or you'll have to look at a crooked decal for a long time. Or buy new decals, that can be expensive
DucST4 is offline  
post #7 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 09:39 AM
hutch1200
Recovering Bronco Rider
 
hutch1200's Avatar
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Clarks Summit
Posts: 3,259
Everybody here is right on.
2 man job
Let paint cure
When I did my orange set in '84, I went around the edges w/clear nail polish, very thin coat. I never had to worry about the edges lifting. FWIW

I've also learned that sometimes... when people don't agree with you .... its best to hold them down and kidney punch them till they agree with you
hutch1200 is offline  
post #8 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
gazzo
Registered User
 
gazzo's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Fremantle
Posts: 1,702
Thanks for the responses folks. I have a big red hood just yelling at me for the R word.
Don't know if I'll be able to squeeze in 3 beers and a couple of glasses of red this morning though Keith460 but I'll give it a shot. Might overshoot that mark if there are two of us.
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_2003.jpg   IMG_2009.jpg  
gazzo is offline  
post #9 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 05:52 PM
248107
Guest
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Glendale,Arizona
Posts: 1,563
I bought from Phoenix Graphics and hired it done.The installer said the decals were old and couldn't be applied unless he used water.The instructions said don't use any type of liquid.So we waited called Morris 4x4 where i bough them and said they would back me up if they went south after being installed.So put them on and had to use water solution to get them to separate but the job looked great.Two months later they started to peel and the installer said he knew they would.Called Morris again they said to call Phoenix Graphics.I didn't know at the time they were made 25 miles from me or i would have taken them back.Short story,Morris couldn't back me because Phoenix Graphics said they were installed wrong.
Moral of the story make sure you cover your bases well before installing.400 bucks was a hard lump to eat.
248107 is offline  
post #10 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
gazzo
Registered User
 
gazzo's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Fremantle
Posts: 1,702
Interesting the instructions said use no liquid at all because everyone here who's replied as well as my instructions say that I should use gel or weak soapy water on large decals then squeegy out liquid. I didn't use any liquid on the small rear corner one I did last night and even this morning it's a bit iffy.
I just put on the other side corner and will leave the backing for three hours as they suggest.

I have a sign guy who makes really nice "knife cut" decals for our business which I stick on our cars and all around our sea container machines and they never move. In fact they are a pr*%k to get off if you want to sell the car. They only have a weak waxy backing which peels off real nice.
The backing on these Phoenix graphics is so sticky it just wants to peel the decals right back off again.
I just don't seem to get it.
gazzo is offline  
post #11 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 07:41 PM
CrazyHorse6
Registered User
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Irmo, SC
Posts: 1,081
I'd contact phoenix graphics and verify the install instructions. Like others have said, my huge bird came with directions to lightly mist the decal and area with a mixture of soap and water, then lay it down, verify position and squeegie out the water. Worked well enough. I'd have been screwed if I had to lay it sticky side down in one shot.....
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_1796 reduced.jpg  

CJ7, 258, Dana 20 T-case, Dana 30 & AMC 20, TFI Ignition upgrade, MC 2150 carb, YJ tub mod
CrazyHorse6 is offline  
post #12 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 07:48 PM
keith460
Web Wheeler
 
keith460's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Doylestown, PA
Posts: 9,275
I had the same problem with the Phoenix decals too, hard to get them to stay on the body trying to peel away the top film which keeps them aligned and apart. I found using a squeegee to remove all the water and gel first then using a hair dryer to warm and dry them allowed removing the top film a little easier. And yes, let them setup awhile before attempting to pull the top film off and pull 180° from the surface allows them to stay in place better. The top peel away layer is not so easy as you think. I remember putting OEM decals on my wife's 84 CJ and it was much easier to do because the top peel away layer was paper. I just did the back trunk lid of her new Ford Mustang with an OEM black vinyl decal and that one was easy too.

.
1984 CJ-7 Renegade
__________________
keith460 is offline  
post #13 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 08:00 PM
Superjay5
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Buckley
Posts: 197
I might be able to help.....this is what I do for a living.

I'm just a little confused as what is causing the problem....terminology...

The backing paper is what is on the backside of the vinyl decal.

Transfer Paper is what is on the front of the decal....to transfer the decal.

Sounds like the issue is with the Transfer paper. Is it that same clear Transfer paper that you show on the Jeep decal?

If so, alot of the clear transfer paper have a pretty aggressive grip, but should still release from the decal easily.

I don't understand letting the decal sit for 3 hours before pulling the transfer paper to allow proper adhesion when applying dry. There should be no reason to do that.

If its a pressure sensitive adhesive like Keith says, there are not to many making of that material... and all of them are a premium cast vinyl.

Are there any markings on the backing paper... 3M or Avery are usually marked.

I would say right now.... that they are old decals.... one of tells of old decals are that the transfer paper doesn't want to release.

If they had a real Paper transfer paper and not the clear... you apply the decals dry....then spray the transfer paper with water and that will release the adhesive on the transfer paper.

I have been doing this for 18 years... I stick a decal and instantly remove the transfer tape..... I have pretty much done anything you can think of with a decal, there should be no reason to wait!

The only time you would have to let it sit for awhile is if you use a application spray/gel. Which I am not a big fan of.... but works for many.

Old decals sitting in a warehouse is my first thought
Superjay5 is offline  
post #14 of 55 Old 04-19-2012, 08:18 PM
Superjay5
Registered User
1983 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Buckley
Posts: 197
One other thought that might help.....

Not a big fan of the fresh paint thing.... I Would let it dry!

I always use isopropyl alcohol mixed 50/50 with water to prep the surface, but since you are new paint those decals should still stick like crazy!

Still thinking old decals.....

not sure if they give you any instruction on the install on how to "Hinge" the decals but its a handy trick. Once it is hinges....if you are able to cut between letters...you are able to work with a smaller "decal" at a time.. This would be for the TOP HINGE METHOD

Here is something I found on the web that shows the "hinge"

In the attached...once it was hinged with tape...you could then cut between the letters of the word welcome, make cuts inbetween the w and e... etc.

also looks like Keith deployed the hinge on his decals.

Let that paint dry first!

Superjay5 is offline  
post #15 of 55 Old 04-20-2012, 01:30 AM Thread Starter
gazzo
Registered User
 
gazzo's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Fremantle
Posts: 1,702
Right. So here I am on Friday arvo with number two beer in front of me. Back in my shop is a pile of sticky orange plastic and "backing". I am one pi$&ed off mother [email protected]/ker right now. I will post from my computer later and show some pix.

Man that backing plastic stuck like ****e to a blanket and pulled everything off with it. I followed all the rules.

I stick knife cut decals on my work jobs and cant understand why these things aren't as easy.

I'll talk later when I've had a hundred more beers

Gary (gazzo)

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/gazzos-cj10-truck-2185617/
gazzo is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Jeep Forums Replies Last Post
Need a good CJ mechanic in Phoenix, Arizona? SkyJax Jeep CJ Forum 7 07-18-2016 11:35 AM
Aluminum welder in the Phoenix metro area needed 85LaredoCJ7 Jeep CJ Forum 2 02-21-2012 09:16 PM
Craigslist find (phoenix area) CoryA Jeep CJ Forum 0 12-08-2011 08:55 AM
Good CL find Front D44 in Phoenix LT1CJ7 Jeep CJ Forum 0 11-14-2010 01:02 PM
Decals... collinpyle Jeep CJ Forum 24 06-08-2007 04:02 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome