NP 435 Trans Conversion - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 101 Old 06-15-2020, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
Jafo220
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NP 435 Trans Conversion

I have seen some posts on here with some members doing this conversion. I went with the Novac kit to a D300. I have the trans rebuilt and pulled the t150/D20 out this weekend and ran into an issue. It appears the input shaft on the np435 is 3/4" shorter than the input shaft length of my t150 trans. I measured the entire length of the 435 i put shaft at 8 1/4 inches end to end. I went on Novac and found a new replacement according to their specs it is 9 inches end to end. I know I need to just call, but are there any here that has ran into this issue. I did plenty of research before going this route and never seen anything mentioned anywhere about the input shaft length being to short on certain applications.

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post #2 of 101 Old 06-15-2020, 12:48 PM
Fourtrail
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Do you have the correct Ford NP435? Do you have a picture of the front of the trans? What is the input shaft splines, 10 spline 1-1/16th Ford or 10 spline 1-1/8 GM?

80 CJ-5, 74 CJ-6, 56 CJ-5
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post #3 of 101 Old 06-15-2020, 01:10 PM
sonnychiss
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You do have the new pilot bushing that seats in the very back of the crankshaft? That allows the input shaft to be roughly 3/4" shorter.
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post #4 of 101 Old 06-15-2020, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
Jafo220
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Originally Posted by Fourtrail View Post
Do you have the correct Ford NP435? Do you have a picture of the front of the trans? What is the input shaft splines, 10 spline 1-1/16th Ford or 10 spline 1-1/8 GM?
I believe it is the Ford version. According to the person I bought it from, it came out of a 1 ton ford truck. It was a 4x4 version. I had to order the specific 4x4 pattern for the adapter to the D300. I put the stock t150 bellhousing on the t150 and you can see the input shaft sticking out from a side view. I then put it on the 435 and the shaft is slightly recessed inside the housing. There is no way it can reach the pilot bushing.
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post #5 of 101 Old 06-15-2020, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
Jafo220
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Originally Posted by sonnychiss View Post
You do have the new pilot bushing that seats in the very back of the crankshaft? That allows the input shaft to be roughly 3/4" shorter.
Yes, I ordered the specific pilot bushing for this conversion. The pilot bushing Novak sent was roughly the same depth as the stock one. Or it appeared to me to be the same length. When I get home I will look again. I will also try and figure out how to post some pics of what I have.
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post #6 of 101 Old 06-16-2020, 06:34 AM Thread Starter
Jafo220
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I had time to glance at the pilot bushings out last night. The bushing that came with the clutch kit is pretty close to the pilot bushing that Novak sent me for the conversion. The conversion bushing might seat a hair deeper but not much. They look pretty identical.
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post #7 of 101 Old 06-16-2020, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
Jafo220
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Called Novak and confirmed the input shaft for that trans is 9". Mine is 8 1/4". No idea why. Maybe a different engine application, dunno. But I decided to go ahead and purchase the correct input shaft and install it.

I also talked to him about the pilot bushing. I have been looking at the wrong one. The conversion pilot bushing is installed into the outer bore of the crankshaft, not the inner bore where the stock bushing goes. Don't know how much that will bring the pilot bushing back, but I aim to find out. I will install the special bushing, mock up the bell housing and see what it measures.
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post #8 of 101 Old 06-16-2020, 01:52 PM
sonnychiss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafo220 View Post
Called Novak and confirmed the input shaft for that trans is 9". Mine is 8 1/4". No idea why. Maybe a different engine application, dunno. But I decided to go ahead and purchase the correct input shaft and install it.

I also talked to him about the pilot bushing. I have been looking at the wrong one. The conversion pilot bushing is installed into the outer bore of the crankshaft, not the inner bore where the stock bushing goes. Don't know how much that will bring the pilot bushing back, but I aim to find out. I will install the special bushing, mock up the bell housing and see what it measures.
I have mine installed now so I can't measure but basically the back of the conversion bushing will be at or near the front of the original bushing. My original bushing is about 5/8" long so the input shaft can be roughly that much shorter. That's the case with my original 304 anyway (78 CJ5).

On another note, have you decided how to handle the transmission/transfer case mount? This seems to be a relatively common conversion but I haven't found much about mounting. Here is what I am planning to do, I'll use the Barnes4WD skid (3" drop) and bolt it to the 3 rear holes in the frame. This puts the skid kind of far back and leaves the NP435 exposed. I'm thinking about adding an extension that will bolt to the forward most hole in the frame and also bolt it to the Barnes skid so it can be easily removed for servicing the NP435.
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CJ NPmount1.jpg   CJ NPmount2.jpg  
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post #9 of 101 Old 06-17-2020, 09:06 AM Thread Starter
Jafo220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnychiss View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafo220 View Post
Called Novak and confirmed the input shaft for that trans is 9". Mine is 8 1/4". No idea why. Maybe a different engine application, dunno. But I decided to go ahead and purchase the correct input shaft and install it.

I also talked to him about the pilot bushing. I have been looking at the wrong one. The conversion pilot bushing is installed into the outer bore of the crankshaft, not the inner bore where the stock bushing goes. Don't know how much that will bring the pilot bushing back, but I aim to find out. I will install the special bushing, mock up the bell housing and see what it measures.
I have mine installed now so I can't measure but basically the back of the conversion bushing will be at or near the front of the original bushing. My original bushing is about 5/8" long so the input shaft can be roughly that much shorter. That's the case with my original 304 anyway (78 CJ5).

On another note, have you decided how to handle the transmission/transfer case mount? This seems to be a relatively common conversion but I haven't found much about mounting. Here is what I am planning to do, I'll use the Barnes4WD skid (3" drop) and bolt it to the 3 rear holes in the frame. This puts the skid kind of far back and leaves the NP435 exposed. I'm thinking about adding an extension that will bolt to the forward most hole in the frame and also bolt it to the Barnes skid so it can be easily removed for servicing the NP435.
I decided before ordering the input shaft to mock the bellhousing up and do some measuring first. If it all measures out and will work, I'll skip replacing the input shaft.

As far as the crossmember. I haven't got that far. I have considered it several times. I went ahead and am trying to use the poly mount that Novak offers and the mounting hardware that came with the conversion kit. I have no idea where the mount position will wind up. I do know, I will probably be using the same 3 holes you are. Just don't know if it will be the stock skid or custom skid. I have to break the trans from the transfer case, and mock that up to the engine and see where I am at and what I can do. Like you, it appears the 435 will hang down some. I may design and fab a skid around that later on.

Be careful dropping your cases to far down. It throws your engine trans alignment angle off of what it should be. Pay close attention to your belt driven fan so it doesn't wind up in your radiator. It will also effect your shifter placement as well. Just some things to consider when dropping the drivetrain. I can't remember where I read this but there is a factory specified engine trans angle you should maintain for proper alignment. Don't remember the degrees. Wanna say either 8 or 18 degree downward angle to the back.
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post #10 of 101 Old 06-17-2020, 10:32 AM
sonnychiss
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I'm also using the Novak poly mount, my adaptor is for the Dana 20 but the mount looks similar to the 300 adaptor. The crossmember I'm using is dropped 3" below the frame, same as stock.

In the pictures I have a 3/4" spacer under the poly mount and with the crossmember bolted to the frame my engine is angled to the rear 3 degrees below horizontal (factory service manual shows 5 degrees). With the 3 degree engine angle the mounting surface on the intake for the carburetor is very close to level (my understanding is that the carburetor should be close to level with wheels on ground normal load, etc) but I'm doing a frame off so it's going to be a bit before I have the body on and can make final adjustments. I do plan to do a double cardan in the rear and I will have to rotate the Model 20 significantly, just not sure how much yet.

Hope I'm not getting too far off your original topic.
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post #11 of 101 Old 06-17-2020, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
Jafo220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnychiss View Post
I'm also using the Novak poly mount, my adaptor is for the Dana 20 but the mount looks similar to the 300 adaptor. The crossmember I'm using is dropped 3" below the frame, same as stock.

In the pictures I have a 3/4" spacer under the poly mount and with the crossmember bolted to the frame my engine is angled to the rear 3 degrees below horizontal (factory service manual shows 5 degrees). With the 3 degree engine angle the mounting surface on the intake for the carburetor is very close to level (my understanding is that the carburetor should be close to level with wheels on ground normal load, etc) but I'm doing a frame off so it's going to be a bit before I have the body on and can make final adjustments. I do plan to do a double cardan in the rear and I will have to rotate the Model 20 significantly, just not sure how much yet.

Hope I'm not getting too far off your original topic.
Don't mind at all, good conversation. It's all relevant to the conversion.

I get what you're saying. I couldn't remember the angle. You seem to be doing it the right way though. Some I have heard didn't. That's why I mentioned those things I did.

The trans mount either way should be about the same between the two. I wouldn't think they're not that far apart other than maybe diameter if that. I have both out on the floor right now. Only reasons I went with the 300 over the 20 was I got this one at a good price and the gear ratio is slightly lower than the 20. The 4:1 kits were a little cheaper for the 300 at the time as well. This 300 was in excellent shape other than some seal seepage. The 20 is just as good a tranfercase as the 300 though. I wouldn't have argued if I had to go that route. That's why I am keeping both my T150 and dana 20 setup. I'll rebuild them and shelve'm for backups or i may find a cj5 that needs a drive train. 🤙

Just hoping I can sneak by and not have to replace this input shaft.😁
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post #12 of 101 Old 06-17-2020, 08:00 PM
sonnychiss
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Good luck with the input shaft. My NP435 came out of a 1978 Ford 3/4 ton 2WD pickup. The swap to my original 304 bell housing worked as advertised with the large pilot bushing. I put in a new diaphram style Luk clutch from NAPA, the clutch was the OEM application and everything fit perfectly so it was a relatively easy swap. This is my first time doing this so I don't know about any differing input shaft lengths, I've been relying on Novak's info and this forum.

Post up what you find out.
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post #13 of 101 Old 06-18-2020, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
Jafo220
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Originally Posted by sonnychiss View Post
Good luck with the input shaft. My NP435 came out of a 1978 Ford 3/4 ton 2WD pickup. The swap to my original 304 bell housing worked as advertised with the large pilot bushing. I put in a new diaphram style Luk clutch from NAPA, the clutch was the OEM application and everything fit perfectly so it was a relatively easy swap. This is my first time doing this so I don't know about any differing input shaft lengths, I've been relying on Novak's info and this forum.

Post up what you find out.
That was going to be my next enquiry. Mine came with a three finger style clutch. I ordered and got the same Luk clutch kit you have which is a diaphram style. I would hope to think that I should be able to use either one. So I'll try the diaphram and see what happens as well. I mean all other components are the same between the two as far as I know.
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post #14 of 101 Old 06-18-2020, 02:49 PM
sonnychiss
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To confirm, I'm using NAPA part # NCF 1101015. It appears Novak only sells the diaphragm style for the conversion but they also say a stock clutch from 76-79 CJ's will work and that these are typically 3 finger style. In this thread https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/np435-31434/ a couple of guys are saying that the release bearing for 3 finger style will not fit over the NP435 bearing retainer. Doesn't make sense to me, the outside diameters of the T150 and NP435 bearing retainers seem exactly the same to me. In any event, the diaphragm style seems to be the safe bet.
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post #15 of 101 Old 06-19-2020, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
Jafo220
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Originally Posted by sonnychiss View Post
To confirm, I'm using NAPA part # NCF 1101015. It appears Novak only sells the diaphragm style for the conversion but they also say a stock clutch from 76-79 CJ's will work and that these are typically 3 finger style. In this thread https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/np435-31434/ a couple of guys are saying that the release bearing for 3 finger style will not fit over the NP435 bearing retainer. Doesn't make sense to me, the outside diameters of the T150 and NP435 bearing retainers seem exactly the same to me. In any event, the diaphragm style seems to be the safe bet.
Hmm. I have both out on the floor right now. Should be an easy check. I have digital calipers as well. We'll find out pretty soon. Both throwout bearings look the exact same to me as does the bearing retainers. Both forks look the same too. I bought a used bellhousing sometime back due to mine breaking where the clutch linkage braket bolts to it. I fabricated a reinforcement bracket that has held up well. It will be going on the new bellhousing. I got a fork with the bellhousing.The only difference I seen, at a glance, between the two clutch types is the diaphram style is not at tall as the 3 finger style.

I bought mine off Rockauto. My part number is 01-015.
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