Need Some Clarification - Tie Rod/Drag Link Flip - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 25 Old 04-07-2015, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
Agar426
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Need Some Clarification - Tie Rod/Drag Link Flip

There is TONS of information out there on this subject, and I've read much of it. I understand (pretty much) the how and the why. But....I do have a couple of questions simply for clarity:

1) I see three kits that are mostly utilized, GoFerIt, Rock Equipment and M.O.R.E. Are there any others out there worth considering?

2) The GoFerIt and the M.O.R.E. seem to do both the tie rod and the drag linkn, whereas the RE only does the tie rod. Am I correct in this assessment, and is there a reason why RE only does the tie rod? Is this something I should take into consideration?

3) The M.O.R.E. setup is more of a heavy duty link setup which gives you the option to mount above or below. Based on the pictures on their web site, they seem to use Heim joints instead of OE style rod ends. Is this better/worse/simply different?

I will be running 4" of lift and the BDS system comes with a dropped pitman arm, but if flipping the steering is the better solution (is it?) then I will go this route.

Thank you for any and all help!!

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post #2 of 25 Old 04-07-2015, 09:56 AM
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IMO, any kit that doesn't move the drag link up isn't worth using. For me, getting the drag link back up and parallel with the tie rod and ditching the drop pitman arm was the whole reason for doing the flip (the extra clearance was secondary).

As for heims vs TRE's, I personally wouldn't run heims on a rig that sees time on the street. Not to mention that depending on your location, they may be illegal.

'84 CJ-17: 17" stretch, locked Toy axles, 5.5" lift, FI, AX15, D300 w/twin sticks, boatsides & junk.
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post #3 of 25 Old 04-07-2015, 11:54 AM
y2k-fxst
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Like jeepwhore said most in states it is illegal to run heim joints on the street. Definite advantage to help with steering alignment to flip the tie rods to the top of the steering arms. Drop pitman arms are their own can of worms. Most are basically stock arms that have been bent and end up shorter hole to hole than stock. Also they can put more stress on the steering box. With stock flat arms stress from the drag link is in a lineal motion, whereas with the dropped arm the stress is also side to side.

The GoFerIt bushings are a good option, only problem with them is they add thickness to the arm at the drag link mounting point which means you cannot use the factory castle nut and cotter pin. That is why the include a flanged nut.

I think I would try drilling the arm out to 3/4", then chamfering the hole on both sides of the arms, insert a sleeve made out of high carbon 3/4" CDS tubing and weld the sleeve in place. Then use a tapered tie rod reamer to create the correct taper for tie rods.

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post #4 of 25 Old 04-07-2015, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2k-fxst View Post
Like jeepwhore said most in states it is illegal to run heim joints on the street. Definite advantage to help with steering alignment to flip the tie rods to the top of the steering arms. Drop pitman arms are their own can of worms. Most are basically stock arms that have been bent and end up shorter hole to hole than stock. Also they can put more stress on the steering box. With stock flat arms stress from the drag link is in a lineal motion, whereas with the dropped arm the stress is also side to side.

The GoFerIt bushings are a good option, only problem with them is they add thickness to the arm at the drag link mounting point which means you cannot use the factory castle nut and cotter pin. That is why the include a flanged nut.

I think I would try drilling the arm out to 3/4", then chamfering the hole on both sides of the arms, insert a sleeve made out of high carbon 3/4" CDS tubing and weld the sleeve in place. Then use a tapered tie rod reamer to create the correct taper for Chevy tie rods. By using the Chevy tie rod you end up with a solid tie rod from wheel to wheel with the drag link coming into the passenger side tie rod end.

The factory Jeep setup has the drag link going from the pitman arm to the passenger side knuckle, then the drivers side tie rod connects into the drag link and runs to the drivers side knuckle. This can cause changes in the vehicles toe-in depending on suspension compression or extension. In stock form with drag link and tie rod pretty much in the same plane it is not that noticeable but, when lifted the "Y" shape is accentuated leading to increased bump steer.
To my knowledge, no CJ with a saginaw box ever came with the inverted Y steering set up.....maybe the early CJ's with the Ross box had that? On later models the PS TRE and the drag link both connect to the PS knuckle.

'84 CJ-17: 17" stretch, locked Toy axles, 5.5" lift, FI, AX15, D300 w/twin sticks, boatsides & junk.
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post #5 of 25 Old 04-07-2015, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepwhore View Post
To my knowledge, no CJ with a saginaw box ever came with the inverted Y steering set up.....maybe the early CJ's with the Ross box had that? On later models the PS TRE and the drag link both connect to the PS knuckle.
Never mind, looks like it is the TJ had the inverted Y. My CJ has not had the factory set-up since I bought it. I edited my original post to try not to confuse others, thanks.

I own a Harley and a JEEP, still some people can't figure out why I'm broke!
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post #6 of 25 Old 04-08-2015, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback! You know, I definitely think that flipping the links to the top of the knuckle is a good move, but I'm not turned on by any of the methods.....they all seem to have a compromise. I don't like the possibility of a nut coming lose on the MORE setup with my son behind the wheel, even though heims do have a rep for being stout, so I am looking at the other methods with the inserts. I'm the type that likes to research til I'm blue in the face, so I'll make up my mind before too long.....

Thanks again for the tips!
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post #7 of 25 Old 04-08-2015, 08:17 PM
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Heims really shouldn't be used on steering components. We do fatigue testing on aircraft components and one of our jigs uses a 40k lb rated heim and we cant get over 50k cycles out of it under a 13k lb load. So basically I have a box of broken heims that says "please don't use me on your steering". Tie rod ends are tried and true so sticking with those will be your safest option.
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post #8 of 25 Old 04-08-2015, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, so to further display my ignorance, if I were to go with the Goferit kit, which seems to me that it's only inserts....how many do I order? I'm thinking 3, one for the knuckle side of the drag link and 2 for the tie rod ends? And....due to the thickness of the inserts, they supply a special nut, as the castle nut won't work...is this giving me the same potential problem the heim setup would have, with the nut potentially working loose and the steering system falling apart?
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post #9 of 25 Old 04-08-2015, 09:30 PM
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I think you are confusing the names of the parts involved, but yes, 3 inserts. One for the knuckle end of the drag link and one for each end of the tie rod.

'84 CJ-17: 17" stretch, locked Toy axles, 5.5" lift, FI, AX15, D300 w/twin sticks, boatsides & junk.
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post #10 of 25 Old 04-08-2015, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepwhore View Post
I think you are confusing the names of the parts involved, but yes, 3 inserts. One for the knuckle end of the drag link and one for each end of the tie rod.
My mistake...I actually did know that. That's what I get for trying to multi task! I will fix the post. THanks for the feedback on the number of inserts!
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post #11 of 25 Old 04-09-2015, 11:02 AM
Matt1981CJ7
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When I researched the tie rod flip, I decided the Rock Equipment Kit was a better solution than the Goferit kit.

There's no welding involved. You simply taper the hole from the top side using the supplied reamer, then use tapered sleeves on the bottom side of the hole.

Matt
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post #12 of 25 Old 04-09-2015, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
When I researched the tie rod flip, I decided the Rock Equipment Kit was a better solution than the Goferit kit
Matt,

If you use their kit to flip the tie rod you can still use the factory tie rod ends? Any drawbacks to flipping the drag link?

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post #13 of 25 Old 04-09-2015, 12:27 PM
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It's my understanding the RE kit allows you to use stock ends.

Possible interference with a stock sway bar is the only draw back I can think of, but I haven't done the flip yet, so that's just a hunch.

Matt
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post #14 of 25 Old 04-09-2015, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
It's my understanding the RE kit allows you to use stock ends.

Possible interference with a stock sway bar is the only draw back I can think of, but I haven't done the flip yet, so that's just a hunch.

Matt
Correct. I used the rock equipment inserts when I still had Jeep axles and their inserts use stock TRE's.

'84 CJ-17: 17" stretch, locked Toy axles, 5.5" lift, FI, AX15, D300 w/twin sticks, boatsides & junk.
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post #15 of 25 Old 04-09-2015, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
When I researched the tie rod flip, I decided the Rock Equipment Kit was a better solution than the Goferit kit.

There's no welding involved. You simply taper the hole from the top side using the supplied reamer, then use tapered sleeves on the bottom side of the hole.

Matt
This is the same set up I used as well & I'm VERY satisfied with it.

-Scott

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