The journey of a rear fold and tumble seat in a CJ7 - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 17 Old 06-07-2019, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Cj The journey of a rear fold and tumble seat in a CJ7

Heya all, several years ago I decided to put a rear fold and tumble seat in my 84 cj7. I had planned on drilling holes in the tub and fenderwells and install the hardware for it. As I have gotten older and the frame-off restoration has gone on, I have gotten to where I just don't want to cut up or modify the jeep from what it was off of the factory floor (not counting the amc360, nv3550, and hydraulic clutch that is in it, but didn't require me to cut anything up).

I want to have the rear fold and tumble seat in the jeep so I decided to make an adapter that uses the original seat mounting holes while allowing me to bolt the rear fold and tumble seat into it.

I will be completing this over the weekend, and plan on recording the steps in case anyone else wants to also do this, or something like it..

The rear fold and tumble seat.



The Paper template.



My current plan is to use 2x1x1/16 and 1x1x1/16 tube steel with 1/4 inch "risers" on the bottom so that the adapter clears the ridges in the tub. The adapter uses the original mounting holes in the tub and will also have a bracket on each side for the rear fold and tumble seat to "latch" into. All of the weight of the seat will be held by the adapter, and the attach points to the tub.

Some might think the adapter is a little overkill, but I have always been a fan of doing things well, and doing them once.

Wish me luck fellow Jeepers.

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post #2 of 17 Old 06-07-2019, 07:37 PM
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76 to 84 CJ7s used a fixed rear seat with 3 floor brackets. The two front feet are risers and shaped like an "L". The rear bracket goes across the width with the seat attached to it, and it to the floor. The seat belts bolt to this bracket.



The 85 and 86 CJ7 got the fold n tumble seat that used two front risers as pivot points. There was no rear bracket, but rubber bumper feet instead that came out of the seat bottom. These are height adjustable. The seat belts now bolted to the floor in the same holes that the bracket used before. The anchor point is a 90 degree bend from before to clear the floor. Two small side brackets located on the wheel well vertical wall locked the seat into the seated position with pegs from the seat sides.



When my friend wanted more cargo room in his 84 CJ7, he bought a YJ seat as the same design was used till 95. Only the seat look/fabric changed and the direction the release lever moved. The brackets and position remained the same as the CJ so using a rear YJ seat works very well. I used my 86 CJ7 to transfer exact measurements.

The front feet are shaped like an upside down capital letter "T" and needed new holes behind the old one. Large washers and nuts underneath gave the needed support for the new front brackets. The seat belts bolted right into the floor holes and the side brackets were positioned and fitted. Works great and looks stock. 8 holes were drilled with only two original front holes not used.



I CAN understand the OP not wanting to alter the original part. Especially when an original and clean CJ tub is the part at hand.

While I too overbuild things from time to time I do have a much much easier solution that will work just as well. IF you are using an OEM FnT seat and OEM brackets, use a simple front plate (1/4" plate strap that is 2" by 6" or so) to position the new foot using the old hole. So the plate would have a hole in the front for the bolt, two inches back, a stud, and a few inches back another stud. The new foot would sit on the studs with nuts. So the adapter will only raise things 1/4 inch. This can also be adjusted out using the rear bumper feet as they adjust. The seat belts are still attached to the floor and none of that changes. You can simple not use the side brackets as the seat back still stays locked to the bottom. Much simpler and no tub mods.


heres a pic showing the unused front hole and new foot behind it. The plate would go under this foot.






from underneath where I added the large washer. the bolt in the front is just filling the hole.



Ed
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post #3 of 17 Old 06-07-2019, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the information sir.
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post #4 of 17 Old 06-07-2019, 08:56 PM
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I'm in the process of doing that as well, as soon as I finish reupholstering the OEM seats I acquired.

I have an 84' model year but the tub was replaced with a Philippines steel Repli-Tub that already has the two holes up front for the tilt bracket but the wheel houses do not. The tubs rear cargo area has the three holes for the 76-84 bracket as well so the seat belts can mount. Currently using an aftermarket rear seat that is fold-&-tumble but will be doing away with that and use the OEM fold-&-tumble from an early Jeep YJ that use the same latch system. I just need to acquire the wheel house side brackets for the OEM rear seat latch pins and also drill and mount a support bracket for the latching brackets of the pins to fasten to.
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post #5 of 17 Old 06-07-2019, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Heya Keith...thanks for the reply!!! Hopefully when all is said and done the mount will be pretty sturdy, and easy to take out of the tub. I should be able to use the rear bolt holes to mount the seatbelts, and should be able to fold the seat. I have all the hardware to do the oem seat, but in my older age I just don't feel right about putting more holes in the jeep. When I first got the jeep back in 1997 or so drilled two holes in the top of the wheelwells to mount some speakers...have felt guilty about it ever since. When I first started rebuilding the jeep my opinion was "if it didnt come on this year model jeep...it do go on". I have relaxed that a little, and now have the mindset that if you don't know your jeeps really well...you wouldn't know it wasnt from the factory. That how I justify the 360, nv3550, and seat. Everything else, so far, is oem to the jeep.
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post #6 of 17 Old 06-07-2019, 09:29 PM
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That's how I keep my Jeep as well, never drilled or modified the sheet metal in any shape or form if it was not OEM from the factory. Of course the tub is new but was drilled and massaged to be like OEM 1984 with nothing out of place and nothing extra that it didn't have from the factory when I bought it new in 84'. It worries me just to drill for the side brackets for the rear latch of OEM seats of 85-86 years but I have exact measurements and templates I made years ago for this added feature. Right down to the size of the backing plate inside the wheel house that will be made of stainless and powder coated semi-black. The only thing I can't do is spot weld it to the inside of the wheel house but could always use sheet metal panel adhesive glue if need be. Don't think that will be needed as bolting the inside latch will hold it in place.

Here's a picture of what I have now with the aftermarket rear seat that latches to the rear cargo area by the center seat belt anchor and a picture of the OEM brackets I still need to acquire for the sides.
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post #7 of 17 Old 06-07-2019, 11:30 PM
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While spot welding would be the "correct" way for the side plates, I agree the panel adhesive would be best on an already painted tub like yours. Once tightened, it will be fine.

While they are slightly different than the CJ plates, I cut out the plates from wrecked YJs and use them sometimes.

Yeah, I'm one of those detail guys that sees the correct and incorrect items per the year but if you do it clean and correct, that's more important. You can tell when someone cares about doing it right.

Ed
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post #8 of 17 Old 06-13-2019, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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Over the past few days I have been working on this project, and was able to complete it today. Here is a short walk-through for anyone that might want to do the same. I will also include an AAR with some tips that might make it easier for someone else attempting this.

I took the plans (pattern) down to my father's house as he has a much better welding setup than I do, and he also has a plasma table and cutter.


Here are the pieces cut to the template. I can give the measurements, but I honestly think it would be better not to as there was some adjustment that needed to be done (see further down).


Here is a picture of the "feet" I used to raise the adapter up enough so it would not interfere with the ridges on the jeep tub. These are 1x2 inches made from 1/4 steel bar stock. These would be welded to the bottom of the adapter, and also used to reinforce all of the bolt holes.


These are the bolt hole reinforcement pieces that went in the tubing at the bolt holes to keep it from sinking in when the bolts where installed. These were just small enough to fit in the 1x1x1/16 square tubing. These were not welded in.


here is the adapter welded (by dad....MUCH better welder than I am). We followed the template that I made, but there were some pieces that had to be adjusted a little to get them to fit just right. The pattern was destroyed after it caught fire from the welding. c'est la vie.


This is the adapter after grinding the welds on the top smooth. I did not grind the side or bottom welds as I did not want to chance changing the integrity of the adapter. Few people would see them anyway right?!??


After grinding the top welds we bolted the seat brackets to the adapter (using the back hole), welded the "feet" to the adapter, and drilled the holes for the mounting bolts. Dad has an older drill press that made short work of the holes.


This is a closer look at one of the "feet", and the holes we drilled. They are larger than they needed to be, but we didnt have the exact bit we needed. The larger holes ended up giving me a little wiggle room for the fit. I needed it too...


These are the two locking plates that my dad made in PlasmaCam DesignEdge, and cutout on his PlasmaCam plasma table. It took him about 10 minutes to design, and cut them out. They look pretty beat up because I had to adjust them to fit on the adapter, and allow the seat to unfold. I chose a big hammer. He saved the pattern for anyone interested.


This is what the adapter looks like with the locking plates welded on. If you look close you can see proof that dad's welds are much better. He has a better setup too.


Getting Primer. I cleaned all of the metal first and wiped the adapter with a tack cloth.


I chose a black hammered finish paint because I thought it matched the bed lined tub better...and because it hid some of the imperfections...like my welds...well...somewhat.


This is the adapter installed including seat belts. I used grade 8 hardware throughout. I also used a washer and nut on the bolt to secure the part of the adapter that also secured the seat belts. I then used the non-threaded part of the bolt, and two washers to secure the seat-belts to the adapter.


With the seat folded up.


I used grade 8 hardware for the pegs that the seat sits on, and found rubber tips that the bolts fir snug into. I also inserted a washer before the bolt so that the bolt would sit on the washer and spread out the force over the entire bottom of the rubber tip.


The tips.


Now for the AAR, and some tips.

I was am really pleased on how this project turned out EXCEPT for the welds (mine) that attached the locking plated to the adapter.

I did have to use a large hammer to adjust the adapter a bit, and my engine hoist to "open op" the adapter as it was about 1/2 inch to closed at the seat mounts to bolt to the floor.

I would recommend (if possible) to bolt the pieces together in the tub, and then tack weld the pieces together in order to make sure the adapter holes and bolt holes line up perfectly...it could be a pain otherwise.

I would also recommend that you attach the seat to the adapter and set the adjusting seat pegs to a height that feels comfortable to you before you make the locking plates.

Feel free to ask me any relevant questions you have about this project.
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post #9 of 17 Old 06-13-2019, 04:21 AM
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Don't you just love those old Sears welding tables?



I'm sorry, I mean Table Saws.....

I got two like that and lately been use them the same way.


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post #10 of 17 Old 06-13-2019, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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My dad started his own business when I was in middle school back in the 80's. My brother and I became his first two employees. My brother and I built outdoor furniture made from red cedar, white and red oak, and cypress. There is no telling how many hundreds of thousands of board feet of wood went across that table saw. I was still working for him well into college. Lots of stories behind that saw.
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post #11 of 17 Old 08-24-2019, 11:26 PM
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I am insanely jealous that you have this back seat. The PO dumped theirs and I have a best top... trying so hard to get any fold and tumble so that I can get a cover to match the italian purse of the front seats.

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post #12 of 17 Old 08-24-2019, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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I was lucky enough to find one at Collins Bros. I got a good deal because the cover on it was pretty much gone. I took it to an upholsterer that used to be contracted by collins bros. He redid my two front seats and the rear fold and tumble.
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post #13 of 17 Old 08-25-2019, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superjeep3 View Post
I took it to an upholsterer that used to be contracted by collins bros. He redid my two front seats and the rear fold and tumble.

$Cost$ ?
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post #14 of 17 Old 08-25-2019, 11:26 AM
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Question; If I'm going to recover the dang thing, does it matter what year of fold tumble you get? I see the YJ seat fits the CJ, but I don't want any YJ crap in my Jeep, unless the frame is the same and it is simply the covers that are different.

Anyone know on this one? I can find YJ back seats like crazy, but no CJ seats pop up around that same cost. Ughhhh.

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post #15 of 17 Old 08-25-2019, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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I wish I could remember Keith. My seat frames were rotted too bad to repair, so I bought the front seats and rear fold and tumble with good frames and bad upholstery, and then took it straight to Him. Cook Upholstry I think it was. If I remember correctly, the cost of the reupholster job was far less than Collins bros quote. I wanna say it was around 600 all said and done, but I honestly don’t remember. He did a fantastic job though.
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