Jeep t5 just grinds when you put it in 1st , 2nd , and reverse - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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post #16 of 42 Old 08-10-2020, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
agear
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Originally Posted by agear View Post
I think we were able to hammer it off.We were watching the eric the car guy with paul cangalios video and going off that even though it's a little different.




I'm not sure . Its near the end of the main shaft . I'd have to look at the parts again. as well as for metal particles.
Bob, do you think its slipping at the hub in the picture ?
I think it's slipping. Those splines in the synchro hub are worn shallow. I wouldn't put that trans back in the Jeep with that hub.
Even though the splines are shallow it's still a press fit right now so I think it would have slid off by hand. Theres no slop there.

So having said that those splines are supposed to be short. Are you saying granted that's the case but they're still worn ?


1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #17 of 42 Old 08-10-2020, 01:02 PM
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Even though the splines are shallow it's still a press fit right now so I think it would have slid off by hand. Theres no slop there.

So having said that those splines are supposed to be short. Are you saying granted that's the case but they're still worn ?
Why don't you go compare it with a new synchronizer hub? Or take it to a transmission shop and have them look at it.
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post #18 of 42 Old 08-10-2020, 01:34 PM
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I don't think you should have taken the 1-2 slider hub off the main shaft in my opinion. That is pressed on and when you go to put it back on, you could slightly bend it and then you will have all sorts of issues other than grinding. I think you could have a bent shifting fork/ worn fork pads, or even bad syncros. Could also have bent or worn out fork selector thats pinned to the rail on the cover. What oil was in the trans? I have seen where people accidentally run the wrong fluid and it eats syncros or pre maturely wears them out.

The only other thing I can think of is the reverse idler could be hitting the 1-2 slider or counter shaft since it near the first and second gear. Check tolerances too something could be out of tolerance

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post #19 of 42 Old 08-10-2020, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Here's the whole shaft at this point.
Thank you for the replies and suggestions . I will look for pictures of a hub I'll think about the shifter thing too.
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imagejpeg_0(1)_1597089553845.jpg  

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #20 of 42 Old 08-10-2020, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Deer-Slayer_5 View Post
I don't think you should have taken the 1-2 slider hub off the main shaft in my opinion. That is pressed on and when you go to put it back on, you could slightly bend it and then you will have all sorts of issues other than grinding. I think you could have a bent shifting fork/ worn fork pads, or even bad syncros. Could also have bent or worn out fork selector thats pinned to the rail on the cover. What oil was in the trans? I have seen where people accidentally run the wrong fluid and it eats syncros or pre maturely wears them out.

The only other thing I can think of is the reverse idler could be hitting the 1-2 slider or counter shaft since it near the first and second gear. Check tolerances too something could be out of tolerance
The arrow points where we took that hub off. That's not the 3rd 4th synchronized assembly hub we took off ?

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #21 of 42 Old 08-10-2020, 05:24 PM
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From my experience with other trnsmissions, etc, the spline in the hub should have the same form as the mating spline on the shaft. From the pic you have posted of the hub, the splines are practically absent.
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post #22 of 42 Old 08-10-2020, 08:48 PM
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I've been researching T5 rebuild instructions, parts lists, etc. I don't have a Jeep manual that covers the T5. I had a 93 Chevy S-10 that had a T5 and I still have the manual. The Chevy manual states that the 1st gear synchro hub is machined it place and no efforts should be made to remove it. I did a web search and came up with Tremec T5 instructions and it shows the output shaft and 1st gear syncro hub as 1 piece so this probably agrees with the Chevy manual. So I could be wrong in my previous statement about spline fit and Deer Slayer may be correct about the hub being pressed on. Another thing that came to mind. Looking at the way the hub is installed on the shaft makes me wonder about guys running 360's with a T5.
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post #23 of 42 Old 08-10-2020, 10:02 PM Thread Starter
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Damn well then we probably wont reuse it

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #24 of 42 Old 08-11-2020, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JEEPFELLER View Post
I was starting to steer towards the possibility that the clutch system was not opening up the pressure plate up far enough for the clutch disk to idle freely.

Some possibilities that come to mind are linkages/ hydraulics are not pushing "full travel" to fully push the clutch arm.

Maybe something like an anchor point is loose and again, full travel cannot be achieved.

The pressure plate is beginning to fail, worn pivots etc. allowing the plate to drag on the disk.

Any situation would grind because the input shaft is still being turned by the engine.

I reckon stripped splines between the shaft and a hub might also let it grind. (Just saw your pics)

----JEEPFELLER
The thing is it wouldnt grind grind when in 3rd 4th and 5th

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #25 of 42 Old 08-11-2020, 03:46 AM
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The thing is it wouldnt grind grind when in 3rd 4th and 5th
Makes me think the hub was slipping. If its just pressed together the way it looks, my thoughts are: what a hell of a way to do it. Every other transmission uses splines. Even the 3/4 gear synchro hub is splined.
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post #26 of 42 Old 08-11-2020, 07:11 AM
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@80cj , the Jeep T5 seems to be a different animal than the chevy and ford versions. although they are very similar, the main shaft is shorter than the other Non World Class transmission shafts. I just had to replace a main shaft but I had to get a used one trans because Jeep main shafts are obsolete now. You can find them online but they are all too long which causes an issue when going onto the transfer case.

@agear ,
I think the hub you took off is the 1-2 slider base which should not have come off. In the picture below, the red square is what should have not come off and that lets the slider control 1st and 2nd gear and reverse, when the reverse idler gear is kicked under the 1-2 slider. I also put arrows showing what gear should be there. the 3-4 slider is at the front of the transmission. 4th gear is connected to the input shaft that goes to the clutch and engine.

Your best bet is to try and carefully press the hub back on or have a transmission shop check it out. If you go to the replacement route, I strongly recommend you not buy something without taking measurements. When I was looking for a main shaft with the hub on it, the only ones available were too long. I was advised that the hard parts for Jeep T5 transmissions are getting extremely hard to find. I just finished rebuilding two T5s and finding specific parts was hard and expensive and I had to have one sent to Texas for repair because I could not find the correct main shaft.

img_4087-1-.jpg

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post #27 of 42 Old 08-11-2020, 10:20 AM
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Deerslayer, I was referencing the the Chevy shaft as a comparison only in respect to the construction of the shaft, i.e., the integral synchro hub. I realize other features of the shaft may differ. Yes, in doing a web search, I could not find a Jeep T5 shaft. Other T5 parts were scarce also

agear, when you pressed the hub off, did it come off easily or require a lot of force? Are there any cracks in the hub? Look very closely, even with a magnifier.

The fact that the synchro in question is unique to 1st, 2nd and reverse gears, the gears that don't work and make a grinding sound, and the fact that 3rd, 4th and 5th work has me convinced that the hub is the culprit. Really, what else could it be?
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post #28 of 42 Old 08-11-2020, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Deer-Slayer_5 View Post
@80cj , the Jeep T5 seems to be a different animal than the chevy and ford versions. although they are very similar, the main shaft is shorter than the other Non World Class transmission shafts. I just had to replace a main shaft but I had to get a used one trans because Jeep main shafts are obsolete now. You can find them online but they are all too long which causes an issue when going onto the transfer case.

@agear ,
I think the hub you took off is the 1-2 slider base which should not have come off. In the picture below, the red square is what should have not come off and that lets the slider control 1st and 2nd gear and reverse, when the reverse idler gear is kicked under the 1-2 slider. I also put arrows showing what gear should be there. the 3-4 slider is at the front of the transmission. 4th gear is connected to the input shaft that goes to the clutch and engine.

Your best bet is to try and carefully press the hub back on or have a transmission shop check it out. If you go to the replacement route, I strongly recommend you not buy something without taking measurements. When I was looking for a main shaft with the hub on it, the only ones available were too long. I was advised that the hard parts for Jeep T5 transmissions are getting extremely hard to find. I just finished rebuilding two T5s and finding specific parts was hard and expensive and I had to have one sent to Texas for repair because I could not find the correct main shaft.

Attachment 3927511
The 1-2,reverse slider is the biggest slider in the case right ?

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #29 of 42 Old 08-11-2020, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
agear
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Originally Posted by 80cj View Post
Deerslayer, I was referencing the the Chevy shaft as a comparison only in respect to the construction of the shaft, i.e., the integral synchro hub. I realize other features of the shaft may differ. Yes, in doing a web search, I could not find a Jeep T5 shaft. Other T5 parts were scarce also

agear, when you pressed the hub off, did it come off easily or require a lot of force? Are there any cracks in the hub? Look very closely, even with a magnifier.

The fact that the synchro in question is unique to 1st, 2nd and reverse gears, the gears that don't work and make a grinding sound, and the fact that 3rd, 4th and 5th work has me convinced that the hub is the culprit. Really, what else could it be?
Thank.you. It required kinda a lot of force one hit the shaft with a big old brass drift and one if us held the gear right next to it.

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #30 of 42 Old 08-11-2020, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by agear View Post
The 1-2,reverse slider is the biggest slider in the case right ?
Yes, It should also be the only one with gear teeth on in as well.

@80cj , my apologies, I must have read your response differently than it was intended. Somewhere I can provide a PDF of the T5 manual. Let me do some digging and scanning and Ill post it up here

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