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post #1 of 1093 Old 12-11-2017, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
Hoover7
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Hoover's AMC 360 Build

Well guys, this project started as an idea about a month ago, and after a ten-hour road trip across snow-covered Alabama yesterday, it became a full-on reality. Iím now the proud owner of a well-used AMC 360-4bbl, complete with all the front-end accessories, belts and brackets.

Its previous home was a 1979 Wagoneer, and accrued around 230K good miles before the waggy rusted out from under it. It was pulled in 2009 and has been sitting since in the corner of a Georgia garage. If all goes according to plan (did I just type that?), its new home will be a 1983 Scrambler this time next year.

Admittedly, this is my first foray into the V8 realm. Iíve got a little rebuild experience, but itís only been with those heavy-headed AMC 258s. Two to be precise- and my last was in 2001. Yes, Iím out of practice, and this V8 looks quite a bit different than my familiar inline six. The learning curve is looking like El Capitan from where I sit.

As such, most of my computer time these past several weeks has been spent gathering as much AMC V8 information as I can, trying to plan the process, and mentally preparing for setbacks and cost over-runs. Although Ďno plan survives first contact with the enemyí, Iím hoping to minimize the surprises. JeepForum is full of excellent resources as well as personal accounts of others who have done this very same thing, and Iím shamelessly taking advantage of every one I can find. In fact, over the past three weeks, several members have generously given me valuable comments, information and suggestions, which gave me the confidence to make the long trip and purchase. I appreciate it greatly, and looking forward to the process. Thanks!

Iíve compiled (distilled) some V8 swap information from other threads as well as the tentative ideas and plan for my approach in the attached pdf document. It might be of use for others who are contemplating a similar project and hope it helps. If there are errors or omissions, please let me know, and I will make the corrections! Iíll gladly post it directly to this thread if asked, but didnít want you folks to think I was channeling my inner ĎHammeríÖ.

Letís do this.

Best,
Hoover

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File Type: pdf AMC 360 Ė Notes (12-11-17).pdf (375.1 KB, 71 views)
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82 CJ7 Laredo Ltd, 258, T5, frame off resto/rebuild planned
83 CJ8 Scrambler, 360, T176, EFI, in progress
84 CJ7 Renegade, 258, T5, Weber 38, Cliffordized, Borla headers
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post #2 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 12:29 AM Thread Starter
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Disassembly started today, and made decent progress. However, Iíve already run into a snag. One of the long bolts holding the upper alternator bracket is resisting even with a Ĺí breaker bar, and worried it may snap. In the image below, itís the bolt with the green twist-tie. I coated it with PB when I left the shop, but not convinced much, if any, will penetrate. Will I damage anything by applying heat to the block near the bolt base? Of greater concern, this engine is greasy enough, it might actually catch on fireÖ

Hoov
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82 CJ7 Laredo Ltd, 258, T5, frame off resto/rebuild planned
83 CJ8 Scrambler, 360, T176, EFI, in progress
84 CJ7 Renegade, 258, T5, Weber 38, Cliffordized, Borla headers
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post #3 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 12:43 AM
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I've got my popcorn and a coke.

It might just be the angle of the pic, but does that bolt run through the water pump?

Hope the build goes well for you Hoov.

Lance

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post #4 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LKCJ View Post

It might just be the angle of the pic, but does that bolt run through the water pump?

Lance
Thanks, Lance, I really appreciate the support. Stock up on cokes and popcorn, we're going to be here awhile.... Yes, the bolt appears to pass through the WP and thread into the the block. I sense a little movement when I put pressure on the breaker, but think it was the metal merely twisting rather than moving threads. Although it's not marked with the twist-tie, here's another image that shows the backside a little better.

Best,
Hoov
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82 CJ7 Laredo Ltd, 258, T5, frame off resto/rebuild planned
83 CJ8 Scrambler, 360, T176, EFI, in progress
84 CJ7 Renegade, 258, T5, Weber 38, Cliffordized, Borla headers
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post #5 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 06:34 AM
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Hoov,

You read 250 pages of my Greasy Pig thread, and you STILL want to do this? You're one sick bastard, my friend.

Stock up on Super Clean and rubber gloves.

A little heat on that stubborn bolt shouldn't hurt a thing.

Matt
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post #6 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 08:30 AM
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Tell us what your plans are, i.e. how do you plan to use the engine? 87 octane? Exhaust manifolds? Winter driving? Tight budget?... etc.

The more info the better.


Shawn

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post #7 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 08:51 AM
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When faced with this in the distant past I used along with heating the block cold to shrink the bolt with AC freon. This was before letting freon loose in the atmosphere became illegal and financially unwise. I've since used canned instrument or computer air whose propellant turns cold when released from pressure. I keep a can in the shop for the small jobs that just need a blast of air.

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post #8 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
Tell us what your plans are, i.e. how do you plan to use the engine? 87 octane? Exhaust manifolds? Winter driving? Tight budget?... etc.

The more info the better.


Shawn
Hi Shawn,

I want this build to emphasize torque/low end performance as Iím not remotely in pursuit of speed records! Iíve 4.10 gearing on the Scrambler, which will be running 33ís and hopefully, if I ever recover financially from this build, would like to ultimately install a full locker in the rear and potentially a lunchbox in the D30 up front. Iím not a heavy wheeler, but this west Alabama clay is slick and one wheel loves to spin with my open carrier while going back and forth to the deer fields- but thatís waaay off right now. I have the T-176 transmission and 1-pc axles in the rear AMC 20. This jeep will definitely not be a garage or strip queen! As for octane, running 87 would be great, but not opposed to running 89 or even 93. I run 93 in my modified 258 (CJ7), but should revisit this since addressing my timing issues with [email protected] As for winter driving, you bet. But admittedly, Alabama winters aren't that fierce.

After reading Matt's Pig thread, Iím bracing myself to Ďpukeí gobs of $$ at this piece of iron. But since I'm not pinched for time, shouldering the cost should be easier over the entire year. But we will see how that works out....

Here are a few thoughts/ideas I've had so far:

Ignition- I have a MSD 6A ignition control and the original Motorcraft distributor. Will likely need the tach adapter as well. Upgrading to the MSD 8519 AMC V8 distributor a strong possibility.

Exhaust- Keep and use original exhaust manifolds. Long tube headers appear to promote high end performance from my investigation, which is contrary to my goal. And, if it ainít brokeÖ Configure for dual exhaust? Or single? More reading/discussion required.

Bling - Same goes with original valve covers. Clean, paint, reuse. I think they look sharp, especially in fresh AMC blue. The original air cleaner came with this engine, and has the single vacuum-operated hot air diverter. As a nice touch, most of the original decals are in place, although they will likely be lost upon cleaning and repainting. Will document.

Although my engine came with the intact alternator/AC/PS with brackets, pulleys and belts, Iím cautiously considering the idea of utilizing those in the Bulltear Ďgold-plated titaniumí product line. Iíve no experience with a serpentine belt setup, but Ďone beltí is definitely appealing. And those pulleys and brackets are pretty dang shiny. However, this engine is destined to see itís fair share of off-pavement time. Dirt cometh. As such, the original v-belt setup remains a strong, and decidedly less expensive, option. Harmonic balance/vibration damper will need replacing either way.

Intake manifold: this engine came with the original 4bbl intake and Motorcraft carburetor. That being said, I like what Iíve read about the Edelbrock performer intake and 650CFM carb, but again, more google time and input required.

As for internals, most, if not all, components will be replaced. These include: pistons, cam and lifters, valves (seats, springs, seals, etc), bearings, timing set with roller chain, and pushrods. The sheer number of options for these is overwhelming. Luckily, several of the 360 guys have shared information about their builds, and provided an excellent starting point for me. When I get to this point, Iíll need guidance. If you are reading, THANKS!

New oil pump assembly? Need to inspect original system for wear. Bulltear has a Ďnewí option. Ouch. Just reviewed Hammerís refurb thread. Maybe.

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/am...hread-1050446/

New water pump needed, perhaps a high flow model, but seems like small potatoes at this juncture.

Thanks,
Hoov
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82 CJ7 Laredo Ltd, 258, T5, frame off resto/rebuild planned
83 CJ8 Scrambler, 360, T176, EFI, in progress
84 CJ7 Renegade, 258, T5, Weber 38, Cliffordized, Borla headers
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post #9 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Hoov,

You read 250 pages of my Greasy Pig thread, and you STILL want to do this? You're one sick bastard, my friend.

Stock up on Super Clean and rubber gloves.

A little heat on that stubborn bolt shouldn't hurt a thing.

Matt

Thanks, Matt. Yes, sick indeed. I'm STILL trying to get all the way through the Pig thread- it's a beast! Picked up my first gallon (of many) of Super Clean yesterday, and will be applying heat. Would like to make it to the carb and intake today, providing this bolt comes free. I have my extinguisher handy-

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob4703 View Post
When faced with this in the distant past I used along with heating the block cold to shrink the bolt with AC freon. This was before letting freon loose in the atmosphere became illegal and financially unwise. I've since used canned instrument or computer air whose propellant turns cold when released from pressure. I keep a can in the shop for the small jobs that just need a blast of air.
Great idea, Bob- I have a few cans of the 'pressurized air' to clean electronics- held upside down, the liquid propellant comes out and is frigid. I'll give it a go and report back!

Hoov

82 CJ7 Laredo Ltd, 258, T5, frame off resto/rebuild planned
83 CJ8 Scrambler, 360, T176, EFI, in progress
84 CJ7 Renegade, 258, T5, Weber 38, Cliffordized, Borla headers
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post #10 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 10:04 AM
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I'm afraid to go back and read the Greasy Pig thread as I was sick, miserable and drunk for most of it


Shawn

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post #11 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 10:07 AM
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Subíd!

Iíve tried like hell to find a good used 360. Iíve had my hands on 3 and seen a total of 5. All have been dead. All of them were rebuildable, but alas, no $.

So Iíll be living vicariously through you.

One tip I have for you: since you are keeping the exhaust manifolds, consider welding up the bolt holes for the smog tubes thingies and porting the smog bumps inside the runners. You donít have to match the runner profile completely unless you want to. Just heavily rounding out the bump and blending it into the runner will make the manifolds perform equal to decent quality shorty headers (as tested by some dyno guy in an AMC 360 thread I read once). Note this is only for high flow manifolds, not log manifolds.

If you decide to just leave weíll enough alone on the manifolds, I have a full set of grade 8 bolts and copper washers you can use to plug the bolt holes. you can have them as I went the ported route. Youíll have to trim the bolts down a little is all.

For exhaust, I used a dual 2.5Ē system with flowmaster 40s on my AMC 304. The sound is like V8 music in my ears, and the bigger pipes didnít hurt the bottom end hardly at all. The top end however is much much better than the single 2.25Ē I replaced! Because the 360 has more giddy up, the flowmaster 40s will be pretty loud. A 50 series would give you that deep V8 rumble without too much volume. If you have the room, consider a crossover pipe (H pipe basically) as well. It helps performance a little, but it enhances the sound and eliminates most low end resonance.


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I'm looking for a Scout II Dana 300. Drop me a line if you have any leads. Thanks
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post #12 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
Hoover7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swatson454 View Post
I'm afraid to go back and read the Greasy Pig thread as I was sick, miserable and drunk for most of it


Shawn
Between you and Hutch, jeez..... comedic relief and color guy, anything to help Matt keep the faith!


Hoov

82 CJ7 Laredo Ltd, 258, T5, frame off resto/rebuild planned
83 CJ8 Scrambler, 360, T176, EFI, in progress
84 CJ7 Renegade, 258, T5, Weber 38, Cliffordized, Borla headers
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post #13 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 11:55 AM
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I do have some thoughts for you, though. At least how *I* would approach it:

I like the Performer RPM Air-Gap over the older Performer. Get side-by-side images on your screen, check out how the runners split and you'll see what I mean. Plus it has a deeper plenum so fuel is less-prone to crash into the floor.

If you go that route, you'll need a carb with high-gain boosters because of the reduced intake heat and today's fuel that's blended to be squeezed through high-psi injectors, rather than being pulled out of old carb boosters. For this, I'm liking the Speed Demon 625.

I always prefer long-tube headers but since you've already got manifolds, I don't have an issue with them. One thing I definitely would not do is to run duals. Whenever possible, use the exhaust energy from one bank to help pull on the other. Plus, it's cheaper for you. I'd do something similar to what Matt did; run whatever the exit size of the manifolds are into a smooth y pipe and exit the y at 3 inches, utilizing an anti-reversion step. You'll need a good-flowing muffler so don't skimp.

I don't like CDI ignitions at all so I'll just leave that alone

You can probably guess what cam I'd go with: custom-ground Howard's; 259/259 on a 107 +4 LSA
Lobe #HM2123245A- 259* at .006, 212* at .050, 132* at .200, .5192 valve lift with 1.6 ratio rocker arms.

You AMC guys are blessed with a lifter diameter that us Chevy guys can only have wet dreams about so it just breaks my little heart when someone orders some random shelf grind that's based on a smaller Chevy lifter diameter and no emphasis whatsoever to lobe centerlines based on valve diameter, flow and the size of the cylinder it's asked to fill.

I think that's it for now, lol.


Shawn

Edit: And let me emphasize the fact that in no way... ever... would I recommend something that would pull away from low end torque just to throw it up top in hp without saying so.
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Last edited by Shawn Watson; 12-12-2017 at 12:20 PM.
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post #14 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 06:36 PM
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Hoov,

Welcome to the world of information overload. You knew it was coming, you sick bastard.

Matt


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post #15 of 1093 Old 12-12-2017, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input, guys- and thanks for the kind offer on the grade-8 air injector bolt plugs, Daniel- I'll likely take you up on that during re-construct if you still have them, or at least get the dimensions from you! Heck, from watching your thread, I'm convinced you could fab anything. Shawn, whoa... I'm on a crash course here! Need to do some looking in order to decipher the language you speak, but very happy you are on board. Hell, I thought LSA was an airport in in New Guinea..... No seriously, once I get through the up-front work, I'm all about researching every option, and asking questions, ad nauseum. Think I saw UTN in here somewhere, too. Hoping to hear him chime in along the way.

But I need a drink to decompress- It's been a busy, but productive day, and I still reek of prehistoric grease. Over all, I'm pleased with my progress, in spite of a couple small setbacks/concerns. Abbreviated story: Only the short block is left to disassemble - oil pan, crank, cam and pistons. Heat worked wonders on the problem alternator bracket bolt, thanks for all the assurances. Once the brackets were removed, the front end came apart with minimal effort. I was also pleased to see clear green liquid rather than rusty bilge water when the water pump seal broke. No issues with the balance, timing cover or flex plate either. And intrigued with the choke heater assembly- pretty cool how this functions. The intake was surprising: Sweet Mary, that's a heavy piece of cast iron- knew it would have some heft, but holy cow. Upon removing the intake, the valley pan still had all it's original baked on oil. Just wow. The images below speak for themselves. It got better (worse) once I removed the pan. Good news is that baked on petroleum vacuums up really well once its pried loose. Valve covers off, no problems, but judging from the silicone permatex, they have been off before.

I did have the foresight to loosen the air injector bolts prior to removing the exhaust manifolds (thanks for your post, Daniel (read=reminder), this morning before going to the shop), but had one problem bolt below the #6 exhaust valve. The bolt did not want to budge, so I applied PB, then heat, then cold, more heat - but no luck. Snapped right off. The pic is below, but looks like the bolt had a rusty crack/flaw in it. I also noticed that the exhaust manifold bolts are hollow towards the threaded ends- does any one know why? I'm perplexed, but haven't cracked open my FSM yet to investigate. I'll work on extraction tomorrow. Not looking forward to it, but optimistic. Will be getting the rosebud out for this one. Nonetheless, glad to see the dog-legged exhaust ports I've been reading about.

Cycled the crank and watched all the valves operate for a couple revolutions before loosening the rockers, which was nice to see. Also, somewhat surprised- I was expecting a longer stroke length in this engine for some reason- perhaps a holdover from building the 258. I started on the rockers for piston #1, and immediately found push rod with a nice bend in it. Although nervous, the others appeared straight, and the oil passages in each were open. As for the bent pushrod, should I be concerned about a larger issue? I haven't encountered this before. The heads were stubborn to remove, and tore the metal gaskets apart in the process. Even though there was orange permatex on the timing cover, thermostat and water pump, the intake and head gaskets don't appear to have been apart. The cylinder walls do show signs of wear, with two (#1 & #4) showing a vertical dark mark/slight score, and #8 had a bit of light rust on the cylinder wall near the top as well. I also noticed that the head gasket completely blocked two of the upper water jacket ports (cyl #3 & #6), which was surprising. Almost every cylinder has a discernible ridge at the top, which means I'll need to source a ridge reamer before removing the pistons. Just hoping ole Sparky remains a viable rebuild candidate.

She shows her 230K for sure. But the dog sure had fun.

Hoover
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82 CJ7 Laredo Ltd, 258, T5, frame off resto/rebuild planned
83 CJ8 Scrambler, 360, T176, EFI, in progress
84 CJ7 Renegade, 258, T5, Weber 38, Cliffordized, Borla headers
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