Help With Nutter Bypass and Vacuum Hoses on '85 CJ7 4.2L - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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post #16 of 38 Old 10-07-2020, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by j76bravo View Post
I was reviewing the relay for the heater and switch. Thereís a wire missing from it, I traced the red, and itís connected to a red w/trim that leads to the oil pressure unit. The orange and green are still there, but a possible 12v wire is missing. As least Iím guessing. Any thoughts on this?
Post up a couple pictures of what you are seeing. I suspect that the red wire feeding your relay is 12v power (it extends to the oil pressure switch as well) - it was a larger 10ga wire? I just removed the manifold heater relay and associated wires from my harness today. I would've left it in place and operational (it's a good system), but have an aftermarket intake without the heater provision, and couldn't use it. I can capture an image tomorrow to show you what it looks like, if it would be helpful.

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post #17 of 38 Old 10-08-2020, 04:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j76bravo View Post
I was reviewing the relay for the heater and switch. There’s a wire missing from it, I traced the red, and it’s connected to a red w/trim that leads to the oil pressure unit. The orange and green are still there, but a possible 12v wire is missing. As least I’m guessing. Any thoughts on this?
Sounds Like it's one that goes to a fusable link.

Follow one of the RED traces on this schematic.
84-86eng_computer-rev-b.jpg

Kinda hard to think someone just cut it off.
Any extra red wires laying around? Is there an rusty terminal in the relay plug?
Since there is power constantly on it, it has a tendency to rot away quicker.


Don't forget your e-choke.
If you want to remove that 6 pin connector, You will have to rejoin the wire going to the e-choke.
echoke.jpg


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post #18 of 38 Old 10-08-2020, 10:43 AM
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Mr. Strenk's images are spot on. And makes a good point about the Choke wire - as I recall, the e-choke is the only circuit that connects between the 'engine' harness and the 'computer' harness, necessitating the splice once the 6-pin plug is disconnected.

As for the manifold heater relay, the fusible link on the 12v 10ga red wire should be in place where it connects to the starter solenoid - it's a smaller gauge orangish(?) wire on my 84. Although it's redundant with the images above, this image may also be helpful.

Attachment 3938941

Hoov
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post #19 of 38 Old 10-08-2020, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Awesome photos. But it seems I may be deeper than when I first started this whole project. On the first photo (photos in order), I pulled every wire through the firewall that lead to the computer, that wasnít connected when I first made the purchase. The Jeep ran fine without those plugs. Following the wires, I noticed that the red w/trim was cut. The wire that I havenít pulled through, leads to the computer harness. Now, I did pull two red w/trim wire through already, but I havenít cut them yet. On the harness for the relay. I noticed the wires are in different places than what is shown on the photos and schematics. I also noticed a wire tied to the old relay via wire nut. Itís also a 10ga wire. I guess my issue now is, which pin does the red w/trim wire go on the ECU? Would it be safe to cut the wire from the ECU, that are not being used? Thanks, I really appreciate the guidance, and now Iím beginning to feel more comfortable working on my CJ7.
Attached Thumbnails
F6C43913-04F1-41AE-B7D3-EB077D67EF5A.jpg   E71D4D4E-C3EA-441C-9EBD-6F9D16152820.jpg   A797F756-7D3B-45D6-A580-F05A15DA174E.jpg   578BA3A0-F947-4BE1-B93F-7CC3C1B2B373.jpg   924DC61E-88D2-45CD-A193-55E07CF9C38D.jpg  

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post #20 of 38 Old 10-08-2020, 12:47 PM
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Well this Red/trace wire is interesting and in the right location for the heater relay. .

e71d4d4e-c3ea-441c-9ebd-6f9d16152820.jpg

Was this the relay in that socket?
924dc61e-88d2-45cd-a193-55e07cf9c38d.jpg

I was able to pull out all the ECU wires without cutting except the the E-choke wire. and maybe one otherone I forgot. I just snaked them through the harness.
That way I was sure I got all the ECU stuff out of there and didn't have any stray wires that I didn't know where they go later.
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post #21 of 38 Old 10-08-2020, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, that was the old relay. I was only able to trace the red w/ trim to the oil sender
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post #22 of 38 Old 10-08-2020, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j76bravo View Post
On the harness for the relay. I noticed the wires are in different places than what is shown on the photos and schematics. I also noticed a wire tied to the old relay via wire nut. It’s also a 10ga wire. I guess my issue now is, which pin does the red w/trim wire go on the ECU? Would it be safe to cut the wire from the ECU, that are not being used? Thanks, I really appreciate the guidance, and now I’m beginning to feel more comfortable working on my CJ7.

Any wires associated with the computer can be removed now that you've nuttered it. It was definitely nerve wracking the first time- I recall cranking up the jeep each time a wire was cut to make sure I didn't make a mistake

So, the big 10ga red wire was attached to the white wire in your image with a wire nut? As for the relay wire positions, this is how mine was set up:
heater-relay-w-wires.jpgheater-relay-wire-location.jpg

Without doubt, removing the computer related harness significantly cleans up the wiring under the hood. Here's a before and after of a harness I went through some time back. Also, be sure and hang onto your old computer harness- the oem wiring is higher quality than what you can buy these days, and, having the ability to repair portions of your existing harness with the correct color wires will help reduce confusion and future head scratching. :grin:

harness-w-computer.jpg harnes-w-o-computer.jpg

Hoover

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post #23 of 38 Old 10-09-2020, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Based on your oem harness, would you be able to find what pin the red w/trim goes to? Or would the manifold heater work without it even being connected? Also, could I just eliminate the entire computer, or would that require more modifications?


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Any wires associated with the computer can be removed now that you've nuttered it. It was definitely nerve wracking the first time- I recall cranking up the jeep each time a wire was cut to make sure I didn't make a mistake

So, the big 10ga red wire was attached to the white wire in your image with a wire nut? As for the relay wire positions, this is how mine was set up:
Attachment 3939005Attachment 3939007

Without doubt, removing the computer related harness significantly cleans up the wiring under the hood. Here's a before and after of a harness I went through some time back. Also, be sure and hang onto your old computer harness- the oem wiring is higher quality than what you can buy these days, and, having the ability to repair portions of your existing harness with the correct color wires will help reduce confusion and future head scratching. :grin:

Attachment 3939009 Attachment 3939011

Hoover
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post #24 of 38 Old 10-10-2020, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j76bravo View Post
Based on your oem harness, would you be able to find what pin the red w/trim goes to? Or would the manifold heater work without it even being connected?
The manifold heater has to be connect to power somehow to work. But it only needs to work until the engine temp reaches 160* then it shuts off and the water flowing through your intake heats the manifold.

I'll look at mine tonight and see where it makes a connection.

Quote:
Also, could I just eliminate the entire computer, or would that require more modifications?
After you are finished with the nutter, you can eliminate the entire computer and it's harness with the exception of the e-choke wire. The computer is even not controlling the e-choke, the e-choke wiring just got mixed up with the computer harness.


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post #25 of 38 Old 10-10-2020, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
The manifold heater has to be connect to power somehow to work. But it only needs to work until the engine temp reaches 160* then it shuts off and the water flowing through your intake heats the manifold.

I'll look at mine tonight and see where it makes a connection.

After you are finished with the nutter, you can eliminate the entire computer and it's harness with the exception of the e-choke wire. The computer is even not controlling the e-choke, the e-choke wiring just got mixed up with the computer harness.
Based on my rig, and my understanding of the manifold heater system, the red w/tr wire powers the switch in the heater relay, and should be spliced to the red /tr wire returning from the oil pressure switch - you only want the manifold heater working when oil pressure is high. Tried to show the location in the attached image.

As for the 6-pin connector, here is the course of action I would suggest:
6-pin-connector.jpg

And, if removing the non-functioning computer and related wiring is your goal, the easiest way to proceed would be to remove all the plastic split wire-loom from the harness connector at the firewall on the engine side - no need to bother the horn/turn signal/headlight harness on the driver side fender. From your images, it appears that serious effort was made to replace all the plastic loom, and although it looks great, quite a lot could be eliminated as the computer is no longer functioning. Plus, you would know exactly what other 'modifications' have been done to the harness. Although this might seem overwhelming initially, the basic engine harness is straightforward, and you have some excellent resources to lean on here on JF.

Best,
Hoover
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IMG_2144.jpg  

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post #26 of 38 Old 10-10-2020, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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I plugged my intake water system. It seems the PO had added a jumper hose in-between the ports. Is it ok that I'm not using it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
The manifold heater has to be connect to power somehow to work. But it only needs to work until the engine temp reaches 160* then it shuts off and the water flowing through your intake heats the manifold.

I'll look at mine tonight and see where it makes a connection.



After you are finished with the nutter, you can eliminate the entire computer and it's harness with the exception of the e-choke wire. The computer is even not controlling the e-choke, the e-choke wiring just got mixed up with the computer harness.
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post #27 of 38 Old 10-10-2020, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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Iím not sure which wire is the e-choke. Most of the sensors had been removed. The Ďlooseí wire from the 6 pin harness connector goes where? I traced it other side to the oil unit, and thatís where it stops. Will the red w/tr be connected to the computer? Also, will the 6-pin harness be removed eventually? Honestly, Iím a bit confused. But I really do appreciate the guidance so far.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoover7 View Post
Based on my rig, and my understanding of the manifold heater system, the red w/tr wire powers the switch in the heater relay, and should be spliced to the red /tr wire returning from the oil pressure switch - you only want the manifold heater working when oil pressure is high. Tried to show the location in the attached image.

As for the 6-pin connector, here is the course of action I would suggest:
Attachment 3939297

And, if removing the non-functioning computer and related wiring is your goal, the easiest way to proceed would be to remove all the plastic split wire-loom from the harness connector at the firewall on the engine side - no need to bother the horn/turn signal/headlight harness on the driver side fender. From your images, it appears that serious effort was made to replace all the plastic loom, and although it looks great, quite a lot could be eliminated as the computer is no longer functioning. Plus, you would know exactly what other 'modifications' have been done to the harness. Although this might seem overwhelming initially, the basic engine harness is straightforward, and you have some excellent resources to lean on here on JF.

Best,
Hoover
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post #28 of 38 Old 10-10-2020, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by j76bravo View Post
I’m not sure which wire is the e-choke. Most of the sensors had been removed. The ‘loose’ wire from the 6 pin harness connector goes where? I traced it other side to the oil unit, and that’s where it stops. Will the red w/tr be connected to the computer? Also, will the 6-pin harness be removed eventually? Honestly, I’m a bit confused. But I really do appreciate the guidance so far.
Based on the information you have provided, your jeep has been nuttered. Therefore, the computer (and associated wiring) on your jeep is demised, not functional, and for all intents and purposes, dead weight. Any wiring connected to it can be removed without issue. As such, there's no need to worry about anything that might be feeding the computer at this point. It's done. As described in previous posts on this thread, the red w/tr wire goes to the e-choke- that's the loose wire in your image, and where it was suggested you splice a wire to connect to the e-choke to ensure it would continue to function if you elected to remove the computer wiring harness. The remaining wires in the 6-pin connector and associated components can be removed. Really good suggestions have been made in response to your questions, but there seems to be some sort of disconnect between those suggestions and what is done. Trust me, Bravo, we are trying to help you with your issues.

Also, bypassing the water jacket on your intake will work, but keeping the heated water passing through the intake insures that fuel/air mixtures will be uniform as the carb feeds fuel to each of the cylinders. Me? Mine is operating, and feel it's a good system. YMMV.

Best,
Hoover

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post #29 of 38 Old 10-11-2020, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the direct answers. I was confused with the instructions. It wasnít a trust issue, I was truly lost. Iím starting to understand now. The loose wire doesnít go to anything. I inclosed a photo of how the heater manifold relay is currently connected. As for the e-choke, my carb has no wires going to it. But looking at the schematics, itís basically 12v going to the e-choke switch itself. Is that correct? Basically I just have to install the 12v to the relay itself. Also, am I going to junk the idle control relay? Thanks. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoover7 View Post
Based on the information you have provided, your jeep has been nuttered. Therefore, the computer (and associated wiring) on your jeep is demised, not functional, and for all intents and purposes, dead weight. Any wiring connected to it can be removed without issue. As such, there's no need to worry about anything that might be feeding the computer at this point. It's done. As described in previous posts on this thread, the red w/tr wire goes to the e-choke- that's the loose wire in your image, and where it was suggested you splice a wire to connect to the e-choke to ensure it would continue to function if you elected to remove the computer wiring harness. The remaining wires in the 6-pin connector and associated components can be removed. Really good suggestions have been made in response to your questions, but there seems to be some sort of disconnect between those suggestions and what is done. Trust me, Bravo, we are trying to help you with your issues.

Also, bypassing the water jacket on your intake will work, but keeping the heated water passing through the intake insures that fuel/air mixtures will be uniform as the carb feeds fuel to each of the cylinders. Me? Mine is operating, and feel it's a good system. YMMV.

Best,
Hoover
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post #30 of 38 Old 10-11-2020, 09:13 PM
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I get the uncertainty, no worries- been there, as have many others. Diving in is the best way to learn, and getting into the harness is definitely the deep end of the pool. Thankfully, once you start identifying wires, where they go and what they do, it's not nearly as complicated. Definitely keep posting up images along with your questions, that's the best way to get your issues ironed out. I've made a few notes on your image, hopefully it makes sense.
six-pin-plug.jpg

Also, here's a diagram that's floated around here for quite some time describing how the E-choke wiring is configured. Basically, 12v is fed to the oil pressure switch, and when the oil pressure comes up (engine cranks), the switch closes, and sends 12v to the e-choke. As the e-choke heats up (from the 12v), it slowly opens. Given the splice to the heater relay, that 12v current also enables the Manifold heater relay to close, sending current to the manifold heater as well. Once water temp in the intake manifold reaches 160*, it opens the temperature switch (green wire) and interrupts power to the manifold heater.
Name:  ChokeWiring.jpg
Views: 15
Size:  34.6 KB

Also, given your rig is an 85, here is a diagram created by Mr. Strenk that tells you what each wire coming from the bulkhead connector on the firewall (above the brake) is. In essence, these are the wires that you need to keep.
Name:  CJ Firewall Connector Decoded.jpg
Views: 18
Size:  76.5 KB

Keep posting up pictures along with your questions! That's gives us something to 'mark up' and send back-

Best,
Hoov
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