Heim joint clutch rods. Shorten linkage ? - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
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post #31 of 56 Old 09-19-2020, 04:10 PM
John Strenk
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Just a straight shot

One thing to note
The arms of the bell crank are different lengths. One side is 1-3/4” and the other side is 2-1/4” so for the same amount of rotation. One side will move farther than the other

On my setup I have pedal attached to the 2-1/4” side.

So on my setup the clutch rod moves less than the pedal rod.

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post #32 of 56 Old 09-19-2020, 04:32 PM
StoneTower
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So if one needs to lengthen one, the other should be lengthened proportionally or the pedal effort will either increase or decrease.
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post #33 of 56 Old 09-19-2020, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
agear
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Yes same here

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #34 of 56 Old 09-19-2020, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneTower View Post
So if one needs to lengthen one, the other should be lengthened proportionally or the pedal effort will either increase or decrease.

If your talking about the rod length, then no, there will be no change in effort.
Your mechanical advantage comes from the length of the arms coming off the pipe of the bell crank not the length of the pushrod
You can make either push rod as long as you want without changing the effort.

you could put the bell crank on upside down and make it harder to push.


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post #35 of 56 Old 09-19-2020, 05:33 PM Thread Starter
agear
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I think I have it with an inch of travel at the bottom before it starts to load the engine and 1 1/4 freeplay at the top . 22 inches was too long for me because I couldn't shorten the length of the linkage without a hacksaw lol , to get the freeplay right . Otherwise my linkage would be super small
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1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #36 of 56 Old 09-20-2020, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agear View Post
You could flip the bell crank and have it still work. With the rod links kit I have you can adjust the clutch rod AND the linkage I'm the o.p. by the way
I reckon I'm using the quote machine right????

I just did a little measuring (after doing so over 10 years ago)

Looks like the "Throws" of the bell crank have different centerline to centerline distances from the center of the pipe.

Swapping ends would change the mechanical advantage of the crank and it would even be harder to push the pedal.

With the way I "bearinged" mine, I show the center of the pedal rod being placed in the same "hole center" as it was originally in the pedal and in the crank (in other words, when my mods were welded in place, the center is kept the same)

This would basically make it all back the same as original as far as pivots go.

However, I cheated just a little bit where I centered my holes, on the pedal end. I welded my doughnut an 1/8" closer towards the pivot for the clutch pedal.

Down there on the bell crank, I welded that doughnut an 1/8" higher than the original hole. Although that was not much, Every little bit of advantage aids my clutch pedal in being EZ and smooth to push.

The actual loss of "Gap" for the clutch disc to move freely in is minimal, cheating like this does shorten the distance the clutch fork gets maxed to with a pedal push, so you don't want to cheat a bunch!

I got a little interested with the rod from the bell crank to the clutch fork.

As I am still using the original rod with my roller bearing/ spherical plane bearings for the rest. I did not make a "bearinged" provision for it. I can't see crooked as working well either. I had contempt plated another doughnut on the inboard end of the bell crank, this still would leave the "ball socket" to wear and the geometry might be crooked.

I looked around and asked my family..........What is a o.p. ????

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post #37 of 56 Old 09-20-2020, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
agear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEPFELLER View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by agear View Post
You could flip the bell crank and have it still work. With the rod links kit I have you can adjust the clutch rod AND the linkage I'm the o.p. by the way
I reckon I'm using the quote machine right????

I just did a little measuring (after doing so over 10 years ago)

Looks like the "Throws" of the bell crank have different centerline to centerline distances from the center of the pipe.

Swapping ends would change the mechanical advantage of the crank and it would even be harder to push the pedal.

With the way I "bearinged" mine, I show the center of the pedal rod being placed in the same "hole center" as it was originally in the pedal and in the crank (in other words, when my mods were welded in place, the center is kept the same)

This would basically make it all back the same as original as far as pivots go.

However, I cheated just a little bit where I centered my holes, on the pedal end. I welded my doughnut an 1/8" closer towards the pivot for the clutch pedal.

Down there on the bell crank, I welded that doughnut an 1/8" higher than the original hole. Although that was not much, Every little bit of advantage aids my clutch pedal in being EZ and smooth to push.

The actual loss of "Gap" for the clutch disc to move freely in is minimal, cheating like this does shorten the distance the clutch fork gets maxed to with a pedal push, so you don't want to cheat a bunch!

I got a little interested with the rod from the bell crank to the clutch fork.

As I am still using the original rod with my roller bearing/ spherical plane bearings for the rest. I did not make a "bearinged" provision for it. I can't see crooked as working well either. I had contempt plated another doughnut on the inboard end of the bell crank, this still would leave the "ball socket" to wear and the geometry might be crooked.

I looked around and asked my family..........What is a o.p. ????

----JEEPFELLER
Original person of the thread

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #38 of 56 Old 09-20-2020, 02:45 PM
StoneTower
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I was not talking about the tube length. I was talking about the arms that come off the tubes. They are like levers. If you lengthen/shorten one it changes the ratio of the other. With a lift, one can not just lengthen one of the arms. Someone may want to lengthen an are to make the angle to the clutch fork better but that would change the ratio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
If your talking about the rod length, then no, there will be no change in effort.
Your mechanical advantage comes from the length of the arms coming off the pipe of the bell crank not the length of the pushrod
You can make either push rod as long as you want without changing the effort.

you could put the bell crank on upside down and make it harder to push.
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post #39 of 56 Old 09-20-2020, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneTower View Post
I was not talking about the tube length. I was talking about the arms that come off the tubes. They are like levers. If you lengthen/shorten one it changes the ratio of the other. With a lift, one can not just lengthen one of the arms. Someone may want to lengthen an are to make the angle to the clutch fork better but that would change the ratio.
Yeah, I wasn't talking about the tube length of the bell crank either. Sounds like we are getting our terms mixed up.

Usually you just need a longer pushrod with a body lift.
I never really saw a problem with the angle of arms with the clutch fork were one would need to change the length of the arms.

I did change the mounting position of one end of the bellcrank. That's when I needed a longer pushrod.

Besides Jeepfellow, do people normally do that? Usually if you have a body lift, you just need a longer push rod.

Now I see why people go with a hydraulic clutch. Sure solves a lot of alignment problems.


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post #40 of 56 Old 09-21-2020, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
agear
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I'm still wondering why I had to shorten my linkage so much .....

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #41 of 56 Old 09-22-2020, 10:46 AM
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The only change that I could see with my set up (Basically the same stuff as OEM but with bearings installed) Is with body height changes is to lengthening of the rod between the pedal and bell crank.

And......if the bracketing positions for the bell crank changed, Adding extensions or modifying the brackets as to get the bell crank back to where it was to begin with.

If all went back positioned OEM but with the longer pedal rod, the "throws" and "geometry" of the crank itself would operate as they used to.

I had a few near "rear endings" to the fellers in front of me when my bell crank stuff either sawed itself in half or just broke leaving me stranded or in most scenarios having to cranking up "in (a) gear" in order to make it in. In town, not a good way to drive. This is the reason I modified things a little bit over 10 years ago and installed roller bearings and spherical plane bearings at my pivots (all but for the clutch fork rod) I'm still straddled the fence on the better way to make it better.

I'm not here to make others mad, I was just offering my proven solution and looking for one to finish my system out the best it can be.

Many many other CJers have no clue about "sawing in half" (either the hole or the rod) Or why there pedal has "hard spot" when in reality its the "sawing" and "elongation" of the holes that no longer allows the smoothness in the once rounded holes and stems. It is not addressed until failure strikes.

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post #42 of 56 Old 09-22-2020, 10:53 AM
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agear

Maybe you need to look at post 31 above

Flipping sides may have changed the length for you

That too, may have "reversed" the mechanical advantage of pedal push---now it's harder to push than it could be/ should be.

---JEEPFELLER
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post #43 of 56 Old 09-22-2020, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEEPFELLER View Post
agear

Maybe you need to look at post 31 above

Flipping sides may have changed the length for you

That too, may have "reversed" the mechanical advantage of pedal push---now it's harder to push than it could be/ should be.

---JEEPFELLER
Yeah I have the 2 1/4 arm attached to the pedal

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #44 of 56 Old 10-06-2020, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Guys I've got my pedal adjusted right but lately its been hard to get into gear mostly 1st and second . You know an 1 inch or what ever spec of freeplay at the top and an 1inch from the floor up before it starts to load the engine. My bell crank seems a little narrow but it's 9 inches wide . Any ideas ? I have the yj tub. Supposedly the yj and cj tub are the same width but im not sure about the bellcrank bracket mounting location

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #45 of 56 Old 10-07-2020, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Bump

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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