Headers for 1980 CJ7 258 - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 28 Old 08-23-2019, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
mc190
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Headers for 1980 CJ7 258

Spent the past few weekday evenings finally getting the 1980 CJ7 running- new starter, new alternator, new belts, new starter solenoid, new ICM, new water pump, hoses and thermostat. Also replaced the ignition switch and turn signal switches as they were looking bad and the ignition key was hanging up a bit. and fairly easy to just change out. New battery and cables. Horn still does not work, but that's for another post.

next up- exhaust. Jeep now has headers that appear to have worn out their welcome. Pretty bad exhaust leak in the engine compartment and lots of heat. Should I just replace with headers or go with exhaust manifolds? I think headers is the way to go, but past Jeeps have always been exhaust manifolds. Is there any way just to recoat the current headers while on the engine?

Any recommendation as to which headers to get? Buy coated or do the coating yourself.


After that will be a new carb- probably a Weber 32/36.

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post #2 of 28 Old 08-23-2019, 07:57 AM
Shawn Watson
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If it was a stock/mild V8, I'd say screw it and go with manifolds but the manifold for a 258 is terrible. I had good luck with my Hedman 6-into-1. Hopefully you plan on it being a single-outlet rather than duals.

Please reconsider the 32/36 plan. A genuine Weber 38 will be much less of a tuning hassle, especially with a header.


Shawn
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post #3 of 28 Old 08-23-2019, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc190 View Post
After that will be a new carb- probably a Weber 32/36.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Watson View Post
Please reconsider the 32/36 plan. A genuine Weber 38 will be much less of a tuning hassle, especially with a header.

Shawn
^^^^
X-2 on do not use a 32/36 DGEV, use the Weber 38-DGES
We have found here on this forum that idle quality, or lack of it, with the 1-32 mm barrel used with this 4.2 ltr 6 cyl is too too small, and leads to many other issues.

The Weber 38-DGES is "virtually" the same size as the Carter BBD that you will be replacing. The 38-DGES is a far better choice.

IMHO
UTN
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post #4 of 28 Old 08-23-2019, 09:28 AM
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As for headers, there's several options to choose from, and the type of coating/material you choose largely depends on the depth of your pockets. I Have a S/S single outlet, and have been pleased. But I also have an aftermarket cam and intake that helps justify having the headers from a flow perspective. Are you planning to pursue other engine modifications in conjunction with the headers?

I agree with Shawn on the carburetor advice 110%. I ran a 32/36 on my 258, and was never able to tune it correctly. The Weber 38 is basically 'plug and play' on a stock engine. Other mods (like a cam or headers) may complicate tuning a little, but there are plenty of resources and JF threads that describe that process. I purchased my genuine Weber 38 through Redline (3 years ago), and to this day, remain amazed at the amount of technical help I received from them when setting it up. I'd highly recommend at least a phone call to Redline when that time comes. Ask for Tom.

Hoover

82 CJ7 Laredo Ltd, 258, T5, frame off resto/rebuild planned
83 CJ8 Scrambler, 360, T176, EFI, in progress
84 CJ7 Renegade, 258, T5, Weber 38, Cliffordized, Borla headers
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post #5 of 28 Old 08-23-2019, 10:20 AM
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I have had a Pacesetter header on my CJ7 for nine or ten years. I had installed theHowell TBI and had to change intakes anyway so I made the decision to go with a harder at the same time. One big draw for me was the Pacesetter had a Kalifornia EO# so it was legal for smog installation.
Then there is also Clifford. Never run one myself, but my dad had one on his Ď68 Chevy van and he was always happy with it. I know others on this forum have them, maybe someone will chime in with some info.
Regarding coating, if youíre going to rebuild your engine, wait until after you break it in and tuned properly. Lean/hot conditions will discolor silver ceramic coatings so they donít look as good. Never seen it on black coatings, Iíd suspect it wouldnít be as visually degrading, but Iím not sure what the long term effects are on the coating either. My friend had his coated silver for his Pantera and he browned them up breaking in and tuning a new engine. He did the silver for aesthetic reasons so after he discolored then he removed them and sent them back out for a new coating.
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post #6 of 28 Old 08-23-2019, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Watson View Post
If it was a stock/mild V8, I'd say screw it and go with manifolds but the manifold for a 258 is terrible. I had good luck with my Hedman 6-into-1. Hopefully you plan on it being a single-outlet rather than duals.

Please reconsider the 32/36 plan. A genuine Weber 38 will be much less of a tuning hassle, especially with a header.


Shawn

thanks. I'll start looking at the Weber 38
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post #7 of 28 Old 08-23-2019, 06:53 PM
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I too have Hedman 6 into 1 headers on my 258...I've had them on there for about 4 years and I'm pleased with the fit and performance.
And yeah, I have a Weber 38 (as well as a 252H Comp cam and Clifford intake) and the carb was tricky to tune for my application but performs extremely well.
The exhaust note through my Flomaster 40 and all 2-1/4" piping is , uhmm, pleasing. Many folks assume I have a V8 when they hear it.

Here's a link ( I hope) to a video of it running so you can hear the exhaust at idle:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qY5ReGfLhgGF5fFq5

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post #8 of 28 Old 08-24-2019, 10:08 AM
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The last set of ceramic headers I ran were Hookers from ~15 years ago. The engine was broken in on a dyno and they discolored a little. Actually, it was more of a dulling than a discoloration but there were hints of a blister here and there. Surely coatings have improved since then. Maybe? I only have the one experience to draw from.


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post #9 of 28 Old 08-25-2019, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
mc190
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Will look to ordering the Weber 38. I can get the Jeep to run off the Carter BBD, but the vacuum on the pull off choke is shot as well as linkage is not in great shape, so probably not worth rebuilding.

As far as replacement headers. Will probably go with Hedman Headers. Currently it has dual headers into the muffler. Any benefit to going with 6 to 1 vs. the dual set up. Exhaust appears to be in very good shape. But not going to worry about trying to salvage an older muffler if the benefits of going to a 6 to 1 are worth it.
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post #10 of 28 Old 08-25-2019, 06:17 PM
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Headers will do nothing for that 258.

Personally, I'd get the stock cast iron manifold and plumb it up that way.


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post #11 of 28 Old 08-25-2019, 06:53 PM
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I would have to, in many ways, agree with Dawg. Or perhaps state the same thing this way: Headers will do little (performance wise), without making other engine modifications at the same time. Improving the 258's efficiency in venting exhaust won't do much if you can't improve the engines ability to breathe overall. Without using a larger carburetor, a larger intake or installing a larger cam, you will see little, if any, performance improvement. Might sound better, granted, but if more air can't get in the engine on the topside, the header's ability to move exhaust more efficiently won't be fully realized. If increasing your engines performance is the ultimate goal, this could be a good first step, as long as those other areas are addressed in-kind.

Just 2 cent's from a guy who's chased that same rabbit with a 258, throwed too many Benjamins at it in the process, and ended up with a solid high speed tractor engine!

Best,
Hoover
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82 CJ7 Laredo Ltd, 258, T5, frame off resto/rebuild planned
83 CJ8 Scrambler, 360, T176, EFI, in progress
84 CJ7 Renegade, 258, T5, Weber 38, Cliffordized, Borla headers
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post #12 of 28 Old 08-25-2019, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoover7 View Post
I would have to, in many ways, agree with Dawg. Or perhaps state the same thing this way: Headers will do little (performance wise), without making other engine modifications at the same time. Improving the 258's efficiency in venting exhaust won't do much if you can't improve the engines ability to breathe overall. Without using a larger carburetor, a larger intake or installing a larger cam, you will see little, if any, performance improvement. Might sound better, granted, but if more air can't get in the engine on the topside, the header's ability to move exhaust more efficiently won't be fully realized. If increasing your engines performance is the ultimate goal, this could be a good first step, as long as those other areas are addressed in-kind.

Just 2 cent's from a guy who's chased that same rabbit with a 258, throwed plenty of Benjamins at it in the process, and ended up with a solid high speed tractor engine!

Best,
Hoover
I'm glad I'm not the only one who went down that rabbit hole.....twice. About the only noticeable thing I got out of all the work....better idle and a little bit better low end. Did nothing for helping me get on the fwy.

In reality, the only mod that gave me any real performance improvement was the HEI dist.
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post #13 of 28 Old 08-26-2019, 03:56 AM Thread Starter
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I hear you about why headers but the CJ already has them so no modifications needed. Also read in a couple of places exhaust manifolds for the 258 are nothing special. If it had standard exhaust manifold in place i'd just replace with the same as a KISS solution. But since headers are already there, figured why go back to a standard exhaust manifold.


I can get set of Hedman for around $225. Do not think it worth paying 2x that for ceramic coated headers. Unless I read something differently, I'll stick with the dual set up that's already tied into the muffler vs. having to replace the entire exhaust system and go to a 6 to 1.


First thing is to get the old stuff off--- I'll start putting penetrating oil on all the header bolts and let them really soak in. Hope to make the job go somewhat smoothly.

Last edited by mc190; 08-27-2019 at 06:47 AM.
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post #14 of 28 Old 08-27-2019, 07:00 AM Thread Starter
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will the stainless steel headers that fit on a 81-86 4.2L also fit on a 258? Seems that other headers will fit


looking at the DNA Motoring stainless headers-


https://www.protuninglab.com/hds-jee...261.1566824296
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post #15 of 28 Old 08-27-2019, 08:43 AM
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will the stainless steel headers that fit on a 81-86 4.2L also fit on a 258? Seems that other headers will fit
4.2 is a 258
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