Gearing for 35s 4.10? - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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post #16 of 31 Old 07-30-2020, 02:04 AM
whodatschrome
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35" was the same time i also had to upgrade all my steering parts too (tie rod, drag link, pump, box, steering column shaft, ram assist, ect)...as well as my front and rear axles. I didn't mention brakes (and booster), since LG said it already.

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post #17 of 31 Old 07-30-2020, 10:47 AM
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35's w/5speed, go with 4:88.
You'll really need to upgrade your brakes!
Gary
Yes definitely upgrade the brakes especially if you have stock manual discs.
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post #18 of 31 Old 07-30-2020, 11:55 AM
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Gary, I've been thinking of a proper upgrade on my stock brakes, given the 35's. I currently have the stock power brakes. Is there a "go to" to improve stopping power?
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post #19 of 31 Old 07-30-2020, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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The axles will have new disc brakes and I'm replacing the lines, brake booster & proportioning valve. All of the steering is upgraded as well except the box, which doesn't currently have slop. I'll replace that when I have to.

It doesn't sound like anyone has tried 4.10s with the 35s. Perhaps the combo will be bad enough to make me do the engine swap sooner lol.
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post #20 of 31 Old 07-30-2020, 05:21 PM
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Gearing for 35s 4.10?

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Originally Posted by RedRaiderCJ7 View Post
The axles will have new disc brakes and I'm replacing the lines, brake booster & proportioning valve. All of the steering is upgraded as well except the box, which doesn't currently have slop. I'll replace that when I have to.

It doesn't sound like anyone has tried 4.10s with the 35s. Perhaps the combo will be bad enough to make me do the engine swap sooner lol.

I have 4.10 with 35Ē, reason NP435 and still want to go 65mph. Would I have that gearing with a 5 speed, no.

Based on cruising RPM (letís say max 2400) and what top speed you want, just run the gear calculator to give you optimum gear setup for the transmission final drive ratio.

As an example 4.56 will give you about 70mph with AX15 at 2400 RPM, 4.88 would be 65mph.

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post #21 of 31 Old 07-30-2020, 07:29 PM
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It doesn't sound like anyone has tried 4.10s with the 35s. Perhaps the combo will be bad enough to make me do the engine swap sooner lol.
Using an engine to overcome bad gearing is like having your bicycle stuck in high gear and fixing it by going to the gym to strengthen you legs.
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post #22 of 31 Old 07-30-2020, 07:45 PM
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Gary, I've been thinking of a proper upgrade on my stock brakes, given the 35's. I currently have the stock power brakes. Is there a "go to" to improve stopping power?
if you are running original brakes you may want to try braking hard. If you can smoothly control the rig and on really hard application lock the wheels, you have enough power in your brakes. Unfortunately many rigs on these pages will struggle to do it. Big tyres, big lifts, bulging hoses, old pads, scored discs etc all add up.

If you have mud terrain tyres your stopping distances in rain could be double those of highway tyres, even though you can lock the wheels. Even in the dry you will struggle to make 0.6g in a lifted CJ7, a modern car could be braking at 1g. Big M/T tyres and highway braking are not a happy mix.

I finally got round to fixing the brakes on bagusjeep (corona job) which have not been locking up. I didn't dare take it out in case I killed someone, must have been down to 0.3g.

New discs, pads, hoses, proportioning valve, new bleed nipples, master cylinder, clean and adjust rear brakes, grease front caliper sliding surfaces. i found many rounded fittings and some metric ones held in with teflon tape (eek!!!!) Still not stopping, pedal went to the floor. Bled many times. Found the pin on the booster that contacts the master was not adjusted properly. Whamoo, I can now hit the dashboard on braking, wheels can be locked at will and pedal is harder than Vinnie Jones.

If you still need to go beyond that (and with 35s you may) you can either increase the pressure from the master cylinder or increase the amount of friction at the wheels.

Master cylinder changes are commonly of two types. First one is to use a more powerful booster, an 8" dual diaphragm from a Wrangler. Some couple this with a 1" bore master cylinder from a Corvette etc. or just change the master cylinder by itself. Changing the master cylinder means less pedal travel is needed but more effort, which the larger booster provides. Kits can be had from the internet. Simple few hours work to swap over and bleed the brakes as long as your brake lines are long enough.

http://www.the-jeep-guy.com/brakes.htm

Second is to install hydroboost from a van, a lot more involved and expensive as it works from the power steering pump but it will deliver a lot more force. This is suitable for really big tyres.

To increase friction at the wheels, if you have already repaired and maintained the brakes, you could use different pad and rotor combos. Brake technology has been forced to change since asbestos became outlawed. The 15" wheels will stop you from increasing rotor diameter but you could seek out grooved discs. EBC Greenstuff are an organic pad that will develop more stopping power, but you need good condition rotors to make it work well.

One other option is to put disc brakes on the rear. This sounds good but under heavy braking the weight transfers to the front and the rear only provides around 15% of the braking effort, so money spent here will give a marginal improvement if you can already lock up the rear wheels (if you cannot, it may be the drums but it may also be the proportioning of brake effort, an adjustable proportioning valve may be the solution). Kits can be had on the internet.

These are all tried and tested and plenty of threads on the subject.
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post #23 of 31 Old 07-30-2020, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Using an engine to overcome bad gearing is like having your bicycle stuck in high gear and fixing it by going to the gym to strengthen you legs.
I like the analogy, but it seems the opposite of the direction I'm going. I just want to be able to cruise the neighborhood with my son for a few years with the 258 while I get my ducks in a row and finances in order to do the engine swap. The cummins seems to lean more towards anywhere from 3.73 to 4.10 with 35s. I'm just over complicating things because I'm cheap and I want to have my cake and eat it too (ie I dont want to pay for these axles twice). Also, if I don't just stick with 4.10s, I'll just leave the diffs open to save money since the truetracs naturally change at 3.73 & up haha.
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post #24 of 31 Old 07-30-2020, 08:44 PM
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Good stuff Bagus. Thanks for taking the time.
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post #25 of 31 Old 07-30-2020, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by RedRaiderCJ7 View Post

It doesn't sound like anyone has tried 4.10s with the 35s. Perhaps the combo will be bad enough to make me do the engine swap sooner lol.
A friend ran 4.10's and 35's behind a warmed over 360 and a T-178 four speed in his J10 truck but I think lower gears are in order if you run a 5 speed. I think if you ran a healthy V8 in a CJ with 4.10's 35's and a T-5 you may see 5th at higher road speeds but the T-5's life may be questionable. A lower ratio ring and pinion would help take load off the T-5.
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post #26 of 31 Old 07-30-2020, 09:07 PM
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Gearing for 35s 4.10?

Iíve had 4.56ís with 35ís on the 258 and it did okay... but not great. That 258 is still going to struggle on highways with a decent incline. (IMO) Iím in Utah and the hills through the Rocky Mountains can have a steep grade.

Now I have a hopped up 401 engine and 4.56ís and I think itís the perfect combo. My top cruising speed Iím willing to drive is 70. (Maybe 75 if Iím pushing it) The Jeep could go faster but with 4Ē lift and 35ís thatís as fast as Iím willing to go in a CJ.

If I still had 3.73ís or 4.10ís it may be a little faster off the line... but Iím not racing anyone in this thing. As it sits now it runs like a raped ape. Serious throw you back into the seat torque to pass. Or climb a highway through a canyon to the summit of the hill in overdrive with power to spare.

Long story short... Iíd gear it at 4.56 and not worry about it.


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post #27 of 31 Old 07-31-2020, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by RedRaiderCJ7 View Post
I like the analogy, but it seems the opposite of the direction I'm going. I just want to be able to cruise the neighborhood with my son for a few years with the 258 while I get my ducks in a row and finances in order to do the engine swap. The cummins seems to lean more towards anywhere from 3.73 to 4.10 with 35s. I'm just over complicating things because I'm cheap and I want to have my cake and eat it too (ie I dont want to pay for these axles twice). Also, if I don't just stick with 4.10s, I'll just leave the diffs open to save money since the truetracs naturally change at 3.73 & up haha.
If you're just wanting to cruise the neighborhood, there's really no need for spending all that money on gears, lockers, new axles, brakes, steering, ect. Just mount on the 35" and and go.
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post #28 of 31 Old 07-31-2020, 03:12 PM
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what are you gears in the axle now? and what size tires does it have now? why not stick to what you have now and plan the whole upgrade. there is so much to think about going to a 35 tire. the mods needed are suspension lift of some sort or under axle which brings in its own challenges. steering, brakes, length of drive train. there is alot of math and thinking that has to go into every change. example there is a guy at work who bought a new 2017 wrongler with the local dealer package installed that had 35" tires. i warned him then that he will have drivetrain issues because they didnt list new gears just lift,tires, and wims. ihe was no the jeep dealer knows what to do for all that. i was ok. now he is waiting for mopar to decide about warranty rear axle. the only thing that will save him is it came from the dealer installed.

oldschool

my cj7 has a 4 inch bds lift for 33" with 3.73 gears. i have a 258 with t4 which is same transmission w/o od. in the flats of fl its fine for the road,in the woods and mud its alright. but that is what the PO had installed. it still sits taller then alot of the new mall crawlers with the 35 inch tires. my old 5 had had a 258 with t18 4.10 33 tires 2 inch suspension 1 inch body and longer bumpstops. gearing wise it was better in the woods and mud even without using the granny gear.
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post #29 of 31 Old 07-31-2020, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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hello

what are you gears in the axle now? and what size tires does it have now? why not stick to what you have now and plan the whole upgrade. there is so much to think about going to a 35 tire. the mods needed are suspension lift of some sort or under axle which brings in its own challenges. steering, brakes, length of drive train. there is alot of math and thinking that has to go into every change. example there is a guy at work who bought a new 2017 wrongler with the local dealer package installed that had 35" tires. i warned him then that he will have drivetrain issues because they didnt list new gears just lift,tires, and wims. ihe was no the jeep dealer knows what to do for all that. i was ok. now he is waiting for mopar to decide about warranty rear axle. the only thing that will save him is it came from the dealer installed.

oldschool

my cj7 has a 4 inch bds lift for 33" with 3.73 gears. i have a 258 with t4 which is same transmission w/o od. in the flats of fl its fine for the road,in the woods and mud its alright. but that is what the PO had installed. it still sits taller then alot of the new mall crawlers with the 35 inch tires. my old 5 had had a 258 with t18 4.10 33 tires 2 inch suspension 1 inch body and longer bumpstops. gearing wise it was better in the woods and mud even without using the granny gear.

I reckon I would do all of it at once if it was financially possible and I had the patience, but I also kind of enjoy all the small projects and do what I can as I can. The jeep has factory axles with 3.31 gears. I just finished lifting it and the new axles would solve steering geometry, gearing and add new disc brakes. I'm currently removing the old brake lines so I can bend some new lines since the new proportioning valve will be mounted to the master cylinder. But once I've finished these things, I'll need a year or two break before I get the cash and courage for engine swap. Just wanted to see if anyone had some first hand experience with 4.10s and 35s they could share to help decide whether or not I could tolerate that for a few years. You bring up a good point that I do have going for me which is that the local topography is pretty much completely flat. I may just go ahead with the 4.10s and look for some used 33s to run for a few years. That seems like it may work and would beath the hell out of having to regear in the future.
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post #30 of 31 Old 10-17-2020, 06:31 PM
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I bet your performance sucks. A number of years ago I ran 33's with 3.54's and it was just geared up too high.





Actually it does real good with the cam set up. Although it isnt a rock crawler
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