Fuel problem help please - JeepForum.com
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 07-01-2020, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
Bmorgan562
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 12
Fuel problem help please

Have 86 cj with Howell efi. While driving it just shut down on my wife. With two German shepherds in the back seat on the 5 freeway. We were camping and had it towed back to the motor home. This happened one other time. Up in Big Sur. Turned out to be the 5 amp ignition fuse. This time it wasn’t the case. Fuel? I pulled the pump out and checked it. It ran. Checked the filter. I was able to blow through it without much trouble. ( ordered another filter anyway). While the filter was out of the equation I use the gas can method. And after awhile I was able to get it started ran perfect. Got it off the street and up my driveway. Let it run for a bit. Turned it off and it wouldn’t. Start. For got to mention I also blew back to the tank with the air compressor. Prior to the gas can. I heard plenty of air. Does any one have an idea what is going on ??

Bmorgan562 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 07-01-2020, 06:54 PM
BagusJeep
Web Wheeler
 
BagusJeep's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali
Posts: 7,681
Where is your fuel pump mounted and what condition are your fuel lines and hoses

BagusJeep lives in Bali.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 07-02-2020, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
Bmorgan562
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 12
The lines seem clear. Even the return which spilled everywhere upon getting it started and not plugging it. The lines seem to all be clear
Bmorgan562 is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 Old 07-02-2020, 08:46 PM
BagusJeep
Web Wheeler
 
BagusJeep's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali
Posts: 7,681
So where is your pump?

Lines being clear is not the same as condition, hoses are notorious for leaking air in.

BagusJeep lives in Bali.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 07-03-2020, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
Bmorgan562
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 12
Sorry, yes it is passenger side just below floorboard
Bmorgan562 is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 07-04-2020, 02:16 AM
BagusJeep
Web Wheeler
 
BagusJeep's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali
Posts: 7,681
There is a common problem with fuel injection conversions where no in-tank pump is used but instead a pump is put forward in the Jeep.

They are not great at sucking fuel from the tank which can lead to performance issues and a lack of fuel at the injector. A better place is right next to the tank or in the tank, it is possible to alter an original sender unit to graft in a fuel pump and lower it back into the tank.

They also suffer from air entering through holes or cracks in lines and hoses between tank and pump. Even on stock installations it is very common to get hoses cracking above the tank and sudden loss of power. It starts to manifest itself under full throttle going uphill and just gets worse.

That it ran OK from a fuel can suggests you have an air leak somewhere prior to the pump. i can only suggest you drop the tank and have a look. Maybe consider putting the pump inside the tank.

BagusJeep lives in Bali.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 07-04-2020, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
Bmorgan562
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 12
Thank you very much. I’m afraid that is what I’ll have to do drop the tank and replace the lines. Is it a problem to replace those rigid due lines with regular fuel line? At least When dropping the tank I can check the sending unit parts and condition of inside. Tank.
Bmorgan562 is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 07-04-2020, 08:27 PM
BagusJeep
Web Wheeler
 
BagusJeep's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali
Posts: 7,681
The hoses above the tank can be replaced with bulk hose and clips. I use premium grade hose just because I hate dropping the tank and want it to last a long time. You can use screw worm clips as long as you do not overtighten but the constant tension ones are better.

whilst under there you can check out the anti roll and check valves and their hoses. If hoses are splitting, I would take the time to renew them all.

I would only replace the metal tubing if rusty or split. You can use steel (not stainless, waste of time and money) or cupro nickel or even copper. Cupro nickel is very easy to bend and corrosion resistant. The tubes are I believe 1/4" and 5/16", larger for fuel supply. It does not matter if your tube diameters are slightly off this but I would not use 3/16" brake line.

I like to single flare the ends of fuel lines to get a really good seal at the clamp but this is not necessary on low pressure fuel lines. You can just cut them to length.

if you replace long lengths you will need to clip it on. Check your clips are Ok or buy some new P clips.

BagusJeep lives in Bali.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 07-05-2020, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
Bmorgan562
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 12
So I have to replace the rigid lines with ridged. Lines and I cannot use high rubber fuel line for all of it?
Bmorgan562 is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 07-05-2020, 12:07 PM
Axhammer
Web Wheeler
 
Axhammer's Avatar
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Moyock
Posts: 1,225
Garage
The Howell kit comes with a fuel pump that operates at 12-15 PSI. The pump should be located where the OP has his mounted. The following is from the Howell installation directions.

The pump should be mounted inside the frame rail above the transmission shield plate or directly to the trans shield plate itself.

I think you are on the right track replacing the fuel lines. Have you reviewed the Howell fuel injection installation directions?

https://howellefi.com/wp-content/upl...4/jeep_kit.pdf

Unless the metal lines are rusted or damaged, I see no need to replace them.

My Howell TBI equipped Jeep died on the freeway once, with no warning. I was able to start it up and drive home with no problems, except it kinda acted like it was fuel starved. I replaced the fuel filter the next day and it has never happened again. Sometimes I have to give it some gas to get it started, but most times it starts like fuel injection should start. My engine makes a funky whistling kind of noise at idle that I dont like, but overall I guess it works OK. Im not a big fan.

1985 CJ-7 Red with white hardtop, 258 auto
View my Pontiac in my profile
Axhammer is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 07-06-2020, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
Bmorgan562
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 12
Ok so I dropped the tank. The fitting on the tank. For the vapor/return we’re “epoxied on”. Barely. Also the sock filter on the sending unit was torn in half. I’m. Gonna check the steel lines. Maybe with a smoker? And replace the rubber lines. The filter. Tank and sending unit. I think this ought to work. Any ideas how to test the integrity of the stew lines. I saw someone with a home made ‘smog maker’. Is that what I need to do. Thanks for the Howell link
Bmorgan562 is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old 07-30-2020, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
Bmorgan562
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 12
Bmorgan562
online
Registered User
Join: Jul 2020
Posts: 9

4 minutes ago #9
Ok. So all the parts arrived finally so I replaced everything today , the tank the sending unit and the filter. And still it will not start. Thought it wasn’t priming. So flight with that for a hour no use. I pulled the fuel pump once again jumping it with a battery and it worked. Does anyone have any ideas. I really thought this was gonna handle. It. Also i did installed an inline pressure gauge. Which would get off zero.maybe because I couldn’t get it started? If anybody missed it above. It’s an 86 cj with Howell ignition
Bmorgan562 is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old 07-30-2020, 11:31 PM
RARECJ8
Registered User
 
RARECJ8's Avatar
1981 CJ8 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Reno/Tahoe
Posts: 2,456
Get an electric fuel PSI on the dash. It will save you untold. Hours chasing ghosts. Good luck. Helps identify or eliminate fuel delivery gremlins. Been there, suffered that. Sudden engine stop on freeway is scary AF. ESPECISLKY IF U HAVE HYDRO STEERING ASSIST. YIKES! sry for the all caps. Darn device.

Look it's a 4.6!
Life member BRC
Cal4Wheel. ECV 3697

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
RARECJ8 is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 07-31-2020, 03:07 AM
BagusJeep
Web Wheeler
 
BagusJeep's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali
Posts: 7,681
Start at the fuel pump, disconnect the outlet, power it up. Is it vibrating? Is fuel coming out? If not you still have problems with the lines.

when yous ay the pump was working, did you see it pumping fuel or just vibrating?

BagusJeep lives in Bali.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old 08-01-2020, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
Bmorgan562
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 12
Neither. It appears the relay is bad. Had to order one from China. We shall see
Bmorgan562 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome