Fuel Injector on classic CJ7 - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 41 Old 06-17-2021, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
slorockstar
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Fuel Injector on classic CJ7

I have my dad's 1986 CJ7 Renegade that has had zero changes to it since 1989. It only has 60k miles on it and the shop wants me to change it to a fuel injector since the carb didn't pass smog the first time. I'd prefer to leave it all stock for classic sake, but thoughts and opinions? Does it hurt the value, realistically I will never sell it so does it matter? I'm going to have the adjust the carb to pass smog, and should I just keep that up?

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post #2 of 41 Old 06-17-2021, 06:07 PM
mudbfun
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It were mine I would keep it original, but that's just me. You could opt for something like a Holley system to keep it simple.
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post #3 of 41 Old 06-17-2021, 06:13 PM
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First off that is one very nice jeep and if it was me I would rebuild the carb run a can of seafoam through the fuel system check tune up parts plugs, wires, cap, rotor, make sure the timing is right and try it again.

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post #4 of 41 Old 06-17-2021, 07:29 PM
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Nice Jeep with personal history, love it!!!

Smog on a 1986 can be a bit tricky. The CEC computer controlled emissions system relies on functioning hardware and software. You need to get into it and read up what it all does and how it adjusts the ignition timing and mixture.

If your State allows it and you have many failed components and it has not already been done you could consider the Nutter bypass and stripping some of the emissions equipment. I say consider as a functioning 1986 should be able to pass smog. This will then allow you to put the distributor to purely mechanical basis and run a 1980ish setup.

You have not told us the smog readings, the JeepForum CSI members here can tll from your numbers what you need to do!!!!


Here are a few ideas:

- Timing is one aspect you need to look at for smog, many mechanics reduce the timing advance to 0 or even retard it a little to get it through. You need to Nutter it to do this, otherwise the computer will fight you

- The other thing is to have a brand spanking new ignition system, the clean spark makes a cleaner burn. I would suggest a Teamrush upgrade to the large cap, with new leads and new plug. Also a clean air filter, clean engine oil and have a look at the PCV valve, it should be clean if you do not want oil in the mixture which spikes hydrocarbons.

- Catalytic converters get old and coated, how old is yours?

Then there is the carb itself. This is an important part of emissions, but only one part, and you need to have it functioning perfectly. A BBD can pass smog, millions have.

I would first of all check on wear, spending time on a worn carb will be difficult. The BBD wears on the throttle shafts, where they pass through the carb body. If you can wiggle it up and down, there is wear and an air leak. They can be fixed with a bronze bushing, drill out the hole and press it in, and some have managed to make gaskets from PTFE etc to fit around the shaft to slow the leak.

A rebuild of the carb costs about $13 for the kit and a can of cleaner. They come with instructions. If you wan to try this, do it over a basin as there are small balls that drop out and are a devil to find again. They then need to be set up, instructions are available for setting up metering rods and chokes and accelerator pumps and floats.

Then I would have a look at it and check that the idle air jets are flowing freely, that I can cause the idle to stumble by adjusting the mixture screws (which indicates no significant air leak).

There is then a trick to pull the mixture down 10% at idle, which will make idle figures look good. Turn the idle speed up 10% on the curb screw, adjust the mixture screws inwards until it is just about to stumble. Then wind out curb screw back to idle rpm. This should be a lean idle, maybe a touch lumpy.

If none of that works or you have $1000 to blow and want the advantages of fuel injection ther are maybe 3 main choices:

TBI - Howell - Tried and proven simple GM technology. Comes in a kit, lots of users on this forum. Not the most advanced. Wet manifold, that is petrol is in the manifold and can pool or do strange stuff.

TBI - Holley Sniper - been around a few years, it puts a lot of technology into a device that looks like a BBD but is actually fuel injected. Quite a few on this forum have tried it and like it. Comes in a kit. Designed to be simple for the average Joe to fit but has some advanced features in the background for those who want to tinker. Wet manifold.

Multipoint - Mopar - Basically lift a second hand system from a 4.0 HO and put it, manifold and all, on to your 258. This is a bit more involved as you have to locate sensors on your engine and does not come as a kit. However multipoint is going to give better mixture at the engine as it is a dry manifold system.

All of these can be fitted at home, looking at what others have done the Holley Sniper looks the easiest.

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post #5 of 41 Old 06-17-2021, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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First thank you for all for this knowledge and time, I'm not a car person so it really helps.

It failed the NO at 1203 when the max was 1120. I'm in CA so it's strict here. It's the first time it's not passed smog since I've had it.

It sat in a barn for 10+ years then I had a trusted mechanic get it road worthy again, so I assume things are all good 🙃

I'd guess the catalytic converter is original. It's been sitting 6+ months so I should change the oil.

I've attached photos to hopefully help, cause I honestly don't know much.
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post #6 of 41 Old 06-17-2021, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Additional pics.
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post #7 of 41 Old 06-17-2021, 09:23 PM
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I do not believe that is the original CAT. D-193-105 is etched in the body of the cat which I believe makes it newer than 2009.

http://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/.../d-193-105.pdf

If you are going to keep and drive the Jeep in California, look into the Howell system for California. It is getting harder and harder to get parts and get an original Jeep to pass SMOG in California. Things will be much better with injection.
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post #8 of 41 Old 06-18-2021, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slorockstar View Post
It sat in a barn for 10+ years then I had a trusted mechanic get it road worthy again, so I assume things are all good 🙃
The first thing I would do is fill the tank with non ethanol fuel, get a trip permit, and drive the rig hard for a couple hundred miles. This will help "chip" any varnish out of the carb, heat up the cat, loosen up the engine internals, clear crank case condensation, etc....
You can use some seafoam or fuel additives to help clean the fuel system.
Cheapest start and it will give you time to contemplate the cost of FI verses moving to Montana
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post #9 of 41 Old 06-18-2021, 06:07 AM
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I'm with Jeepdaddy, take it out and run it like you stole it. We used to call that the "Italian Tune Up".

High NOX emissions is generally caused by overly high combustion temps. Here are a few things that could cause it:

1. Too lean of a fuel mixture. This could be caused by improper carb tuning, or a vacuum leak. Since an original '86 engine has about a million miles of vacuum hoses, I'd start by checking and/or replacing every hose.

2. Defective EGR system. This is the primary NOX emissions reducer. Your EGR valve could be stuck, or isn't getting proper vacuum.

3. Clogged catalytic converter. Since yours looks fairly new, I suspect this isn't the culprit.

Good luck,

Matt
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post #10 of 41 Old 06-18-2021, 08:52 AM
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Just something to contemplate; time vs. cost. If you don’t mind taking to time and making multiple trips to get smuggled, then replace your vacuum hoses and rebuild/tune the carb. New plugs/wires/cap & rotor and make sure the EGR valve is working. Get the permit and run it hard through a few tanks of fuel. I’d suggest a good bit of uphill driving on a highway with some speed to keep it in a temp range. I may also opt to replace the thermostat. Use sea foam through the system and then get it retested.
If you don’t want to do this and possibly repeat these steps every time you smog it, fuel injection is your pathway. Keep everything you take off and document with pictures thoroughly. Using fuel injection becomes a non issue if you save everything because you can return it to stock.
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post #11 of 41 Old 06-18-2021, 09:20 AM
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That’s a nice Jeep, someone has taken very good care of it. When I bought my 1985 CJ-7 in 2019 it had a Howell TBFI kit on it, and it worked and drove fine (it was a CA vehicle). The only thing I didn’t like about it was where the CEL was located in the dash, but that is a personal choice so probably irrelevant.

Is that a 2.5” lift with 33’s? That’s what I put on my 1986 CJ-7 back in 1990, along with 410’s and a LSD in the rear.

Congrats on the ownership of your Dads Jeep, that’s something special.

On another note, that second picture belongs in the “Jeeps back in the day” picture thread. And since you still own it, the other picture would be appropriate, and maybe a little history on the Jeep and what your family did with it.
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post #12 of 41 Old 06-18-2021, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slorockstar View Post
First thank you for all for this knowledge and time, I'm not a car person so it really helps.

It failed the NO at 1203 when the max was 1120. I'm in CA so it's strict here. It's the first time it's not passed smog since I've had it.

It sat in a barn for 10+ years then I had a trusted mechanic get it road worthy again, so I assume things are all good 🙃
Any chance you could take it back to the same mechanic to get it tuned and running again? I'd think they wouldn't have much trouble with it considering the shape it is in and that it passed two years ago. Any reputable shop (probably for a fee) should be able to tell you what needs to be replaced to get it to pass and what the cost is. At least then you could compare those costs to the TBI. As stated a lot of smog parts are difficult to find, but not impossible. I still have my stock set up in a box somewhere...I'd be willing to part with some of that stuff if you need it. Take it in and see what a mechanic says you need.

Hard decision keeping it stock or not considering it's history. I'd think it over for awhile before making a decision. The TBI is nice but kinda pricey. If it wasn't sentimental I'd say put in the TBI, but if your not handy with cars you'll probably be paying someone to install it as well. If you have a good mechanic to keep it running right and tuned up at the correct intervals I'd think it'd be fine stock.

My 84 was all beat to hell when I got it and I had a mechanic get it running and tuned to pass smog. Did that for a quite a few years before going with the Howell.

,[_____],
_-o||||||||o-_
()_)ŻŻŻŻ )_) 1984 CJ7 Renegade, 4.2L-TBI, D30, AMC20, 4.5" OME lift
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post #13 of 41 Old 06-18-2021, 12:26 PM
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I don't know CA, I'm in PA, but my CJ is registered as an antique and does not require inspection. Can you register yours as antique in CA?
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post #14 of 41 Old 06-18-2021, 01:11 PM
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California has no such classic registration. California is getting tougher and tougher to pass SMOG older vehicles. They have actually tightened some emission limits so that the limit is lower than what was originally acceptable when the vehicle was new. As vehicles age they pollute more not less.

Where I live outside Sacramento, it costs me $80 to $100 to have a SMOG check on an older vehicle (pre OBD II). It does not take many failures to justify a FI system.

As said above, if you are careful and clever about the install of the FI, you could make it 100% reversible if you ever wanted to go back. California is moving in the direction that only a perfectly tuned vehicle will be able to be driven on the road (that is if they still allow us to buy gasoline in this state).
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post #15 of 41 Old 06-18-2021, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneTower View Post

California is moving in the direction that only a perfectly tuned vehicle will be able to be driven on the road (that is if they still allow us to buy gasoline in this state).
Lol...some of us barely want to buy it now at 4.50 a gallon or so. I just got the regear and lockers and I'm still riding the motorcycle since it gets better mileage. I've taken the jeep out a few times but after blowing through a tank and then spending 75 or so bucks to refill I figured I better start making shorter trips

,[_____],
_-o||||||||o-_
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