Dana 30 Help - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 32 Old 07-13-2020, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
abernut
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Dana 30 Help

I have finished the frame of my 85 rebuild and am now starting on the front axle.


I got it most of the way broken down this evening. The only thing left is the ring, pinion, any pressed on bearings and seals. I also need to remove the ball joints, treat the rust, sand, paint, etc...


This is my first time ever ripping into an axle and have a few questions.
When I pulled the shafts out they were both extremely dirty and with a good amount of surface rust. Can I clean this with a wire brush and call it a day or do I need to take them somewhere or replace them. Is this a sign of a bad seal somewhere.




Do I also need to get some sort of long wire brush attachment and clean the axle tubes? There is a lot of grime in there right now.

Also should I invest in some sort of press to remove and re-install all the bearings or is it easy to find a shop that will do that part.

Thanks,
Mike

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post #2 of 32 Old 07-13-2020, 08:21 PM
John Strenk
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If I saw this, I'd suspect the seal got hard and worn a groove. It may mean a new seal might not work correctly.
But I'm not an expert on these things.
Better wait for someone who has worked on these axles to respond.




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post #3 of 32 Old 07-13-2020, 10:40 PM
whodatschrome
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I'd pressure wash the heck out of the axles and (preferably) the bare housing. Once that's done, then wire wheel that rust off of the inner shafts (where the inner axle seals ride). For the axle tubes, you can fab up a REALLY long extension (like about 4' long!) that will thread on an angle grinder, and the other end a cup wire wheel can be threaded on. It will clean out the rust and gunk inside the tubes super fast! Once that's done, pressure wash everything REALLY well once again. Purple Power cleaner is my go to choice for the degreasing.
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post #4 of 32 Old 07-14-2020, 03:29 AM
80cj
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If the shaft isn't grooved or only slightly grooved, you can polish the area up with wet or dry sand paper.
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post #5 of 32 Old 07-14-2020, 04:36 AM
Tarneg
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a wire wheel is fine to use on everything except the machined step where the seal rides as most of the shaft is exposed to open air. as stated above if you only have a very slight groove where the seal rides it will most likely still seal but if its a deeper groove its no good. what i have used for many years on the machined seal surfaces is brown emery cloth cheap and takes off just enough material to not ruin the surface, works well when used in the web of the thumb. allows you to twist your hand (or the part) to evenly clean it. i have used this on the same shaft multiple times and it will still seal.

-on a side note for later in the rebuild when assembling put some wheel bearing grease on the seals and the seal surface of the shaft so its not put in dry. just an old school trick i dont hear them teach people anymore.

oh and as said above since its a full teardown you can power wash everything just do it on a hot day or dry things off to avoid flash rust and you will be golden
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post #6 of 32 Old 07-14-2020, 05:20 AM
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Run a picture on the R&P and check the backlash before disassembling the rest of the way. Personally, front ends get very little use, so I would be satisfied with just inspecting the pinion/carrier bearings to insure serviceability.

Be sure to mark the carrier bearing caps so they can go back on on the same side and orientation.
If you have any intentions of a traction unit, now is the time to install it.

Don't forget to clean/inspect/replace the spindle bearings and seals. They always seem to get overlooked.

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post #7 of 32 Old 07-14-2020, 06:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarneg View Post
on a side note for later in the rebuild when assembling put some wheel bearing grease on the seals and the seal surface of the shaft so its not put in dry. just an old school trick i dont hear them teach people anymore.
Thanks for the tip. I will definitely do this.

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oh and as said above since its a full teardown you can power wash everything just do it on a hot day or dry things off to avoid flash rust and you will be golden
I'm in Florida about 10 blocks from the ocean. Things seem to flash rust before I'm done cleaning the part
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post #8 of 32 Old 07-14-2020, 07:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepdaddy2000 View Post
Run a picture on the R&P and check the backlash before disassembling the rest of the way. Personally, front ends get very little use, so I would be satisfied with just inspecting the pinion/carrier bearings to insure serviceability.
I would prefer not to disassemble the R&P if I didn't have to. As you stated, I've probably engaged the 4x4 a handful of times in the last 10 years. I'm not sure the state of the inner axle oil seal. Is there a way to check this without tearing apart the R&P? Unfortunately oil was leaking from the pinion so I will need to replace the pinion seals.

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Don't forget to clean/inspect/replace the spindle bearings and seals. They always seem to get overlooked.
Okay, I will add that to my every growing list of parts.
Thanks for all the info.
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post #9 of 32 Old 07-14-2020, 01:12 PM
whodatschrome
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarneg View Post
a wire wheel is fine to use on everything except the machined step where the seal rides as most of the shaft is exposed to open air. as stated above if you only have a very slight groove where the seal rides it will most likely still seal but if its a deeper groove its no good. what i have used for many years on the machined seal surfaces is brown emery cloth cheap and takes off just enough material to not ruin the surface, works well when used in the web of the thumb. allows you to twist your hand (or the part) to evenly clean it. i have used this on the same shaft multiple times and it will still seal.

-on a side note for later in the rebuild when assembling put some wheel bearing grease on the seals and the seal surface of the shaft so its not put in dry. just an old school trick i dont hear them teach people anymore.

oh and as said above since its a full teardown you can power wash everything just do it on a hot day or dry things off to avoid flash rust and you will be golden
So why is it not fine to use a wire wheel on that machined step?
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post #10 of 32 Old 07-14-2020, 02:58 PM
Tarneg
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this is old school knowledge and teachings so take with a grain of salt over new text book junk but mainly 2 things

- material hardness steel wire wheel and steel surface means they will equally damage each other and its much easier to put a groove or valley into the surface
- most of us will wire wheel a shaft at a 90 degree angle to the rotation of the shaft, using above picture we would wire wheel left to right which puts alot of abrasion on a very tiny spot making it very easy to create many highs and lows along the seal travel path. these are very tiny only a couple of human hairs but when the shaft is whizzing by at 700 rpm or more its prematurely wears the seal and the seal wont have time to close back into the low spots so it will just ride the high spots and allow oil to seep by

again these are my teachings so take what ya will from it
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post #11 of 32 Old 07-14-2020, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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I am hoping this isn't an issue. I just went out and checked and to the touch, I can't tell the difference between the part that looks warn (The shiny part) and the dirty/rusty part.

For arguments sake if that part of the shaft is just shiny because the seal was protecting it from all the gunk that was in there, what's the best way to clean up the axle shafts before putting them back in the tubes?

Thanks everyone for all of your input on this. It really helps.

Mike
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post #12 of 32 Old 07-15-2020, 05:35 AM
jeepdaddy2000
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Clean up the axle seal surfaces with emery cloth. Unless there is a deep groove, they should be fine.



You can't replace the inner axle seals without pulling the carrier. It is your call as to whether you want to replace them or not. You've gone this far so it's a dice roll.



You can clean the axle shafts with a rag and carb cleaner. I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle on this, as the tubes/axle shafts are dirt magnets and will just begin to gak back up.


If you are bent on cleaning the tubes, your best bet is to pull the carrier, pinion (you gotta replace the seal anyway) and seals and go from there. This gives you the chance to thoroughly clean the carrier housing after dragging the tubes. The local coin op preassure wash is a great place to do your final cleaning. If you aren't going to replace the R&P bearings, you can simply reassemble everything without the risk of having to adjust anything.

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post #13 of 32 Old 07-15-2020, 07:33 AM
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hello
i saw your front axle that. you can clean all that up. like other have said you want to use a powered wire brush everything BUT the machined surfaces. the machined surfaces i would use a hand wire brush to get any courser rust then use some fine sand paper to polish the area machined for the seal. i would look into is some OSPHO. it is a acid based converter that will turn the surface rust into a coating of hard iron phosphate. then you can use a oil based primer and paint on them or some pur15.

as for the chuck if you might want to freshen it all up but not really wanting to total rebuild if it is all still good and tight before taking apart. the FSM gives instructions for changing the pinion seal without taking completely apart. they use the method of marking the nut before,changing the seal and tighten then re-align the marks. if doing that its also better to re-measure the force for turning the pinion. to remove the axle seals you will have to remove the chuck but not that big of deal really. you just want to make sure it all goes back the exact same way. the dana FSM you will want is #5304-2. here is a link for it.

https://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/fi...store=original


oldschool
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post #14 of 32 Old 07-15-2020, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepdaddy2000 View Post
If you are bent on cleaning the tubes, your best bet is to pull the carrier, pinion (you gotta replace the seal anyway) and seals and go from there. This gives you the chance to thoroughly clean the carrier housing after dragging the tubes.
I went ahead and completely disassembled the axle. I figured I was this far why not. And plus I have the kind of luck where I'd spend a year doing this project only to have to replace something in the front axle a day later.

Once I got it apart I looks like water has made its way into the housing and the entire inside was nasty. I still moved freely though.


Here's the inner seals.



I sprayed some rust remover on the R&P because there was a considerable amount of surface rust. Is this okay or should I just replace it?
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post #15 of 32 Old 07-15-2020, 09:21 PM
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okay i was hoping the water was minimal since the shaft splines looked good in earlier pics but now you have come to a cross roads. that is not the worst i have seen for rust on the gears but since on the spiders you can see the flakes missing and the pitting on the faces of the teeth i would call them all shot and need new ones. now since it is a front end and if you have old school full disconnect hubs you may run it if you must. the bigger thing this causes though is you must now 100% replace all the bearings in the center and really look at the wheel bearings in the knuckles and see if the water got in there also.

so this is where i say you have a cross roads, first part is what do you plan to do with the jeep (offroad , town cruiser, parade day, car shows, etc) if its not seeing big tires or rough things it will be easier to build the 30 but a new 44 from dana is 3200 (may or may not fit your wheels thats a whole nother can of worms) but to do this 30 over you will need alot of parts and i could see it hitting the 1000 dollar park in parts alone
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