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CRT Distributor in an '83 CJ with 4.2

4K views 32 replies 6 participants last post by  Shawn Watson 
#1 ·
While installing my new Weber 38, Tom at Redline/Weber worked with me to get my Jeep up and running again. With his help, I found the plug to the ignition module to have pretty bad corrosion. He recommended I upgrade to a CRT distributor, so I ordered one.

I had planned to work on it this past Saturday, but life/the wife said haha!!

Started today with finding TDC by pulling the plugs, watching the timing marks and watching for the rotor point to the #1 spot while rotating the motor by hand. I first found the exhaust stroke (rotor pointed 180 from #1), then TDC based on the timing marks and the rotor pointing near #1.

I re-gapped the plugs to .045 and then removed the CRT distributor from the package. Ut-O, why is there a little broke off blue piece of plastic in the box? I looked at the distributor and found damage to the coil housing.

Currently awaiting a response from CRT.

Will move to next project, removing wires from the old ignition system.

Pictures from today's adventure;
1- Stock step up
2- Timing mark at zero
3- Rotor pointing near #1 position
4- Unpacking the CRT distributor
5- Broken plastic on the distributor:(
 

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#2 ·
You could use the position the current distributor is in to help you line up TDC on the compression stroke but it looks like the vacuum advance module is pushed over a lot.

When you put the new one in, make sure you have enough room to move it without hitting the block. .

i have mine so the vacuum advance module is pointing at the fuel pump when timed correctly.

How are you planning on wiring it?
 
#6 ·
You could use the position the current distributor is in to help you line up TDC on the compression stroke but it looks like the vacuum advance module is pushed over a lot.

When you put the new one in, make sure you have enough room to move it without hitting the block. .

i have mine so the vacuum advance module is pointing at the fuel pump when timed correctly.

How are you planning on wiring it?
Thank you for the advice to leave enough room.

I plan to wire it by splicing into the one red wire that went to the old ignition module to the positive of the distributor, which brings me to my next mess...

The previous owner did some version of the nutter bypass. I removed most of the old ignition module wiring harness and through tracing the wires, I have found;

The previous owner had already spliced into the red ignition module wire with 3 wires as follows; an orange wire goes to the choke (stock, i believe this should be a red wire from the oil pressure sending unit), a yellow wire goes to the red wire of the old ignition coil that ran from the solenoid, and a black wire goes to the alternator. I also found I what I believe is a bad connection to the alternator wire. See pictures below.

1- Old stuff out,
2- Orange, yellow and black wires spliced into red ignition wire that runs to old ignition module,
3- Yellow wire spliced to red wire that runs from solenoid to old coil,
4- Black wire to black wire on alternator,
5- Bad connection.
 

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#3 ·
The other thing you'll have to move / bend out of the way is the dip stick - at least I did on mine. The HEI is much bigger than the stock setup, obviously. I chose to wire mine with a relay to ensure maximum voltage, but I know others have just used the old coil wire with no issues.

Good luck - you'll be amazed at the difference. The Weber 38 and HEI from CRT was the best upgrade I've done so far on my 86. And I'm glad you connected with Tom at Redline - he's the best. Keep us posted.
 
#4 ·
You can't use the old COIL wire, that is a resistance wire.
They probably hooked up the red wire going to the ICU.

You can use that one.

But wiring harnesses get old and you should check the voltage on the ICM wire with all the lights ON and heater running on high at idle.
If it drops below 12 volts, I would go with the relay setup.
 
#5 ·
You can't use the old COIL wire, that is a resistance wire.
They probably hooked up the red wire going to the ICU. You can use that one.
Sorry - that's what I meant. Thx John!

But wiring harnesses get old and you should check the voltage on the ICM wire with all the lights ON and heater running on high at idle.
If it drops below 12 volts, I would go with the relay setup.
Definitely do what John mentions above - mine was borderline, and the relay was a no brainer - cheap and easy to install.
 
#7 ·
After looking at the service manual, I may have this figured out; The one alternator wire (black) and the stock coil wire (red) need to be connected to the ignition switch for power when the key is turned on.

(Ref the pictures above)- The previous owner wired the yellow wire that goes to the red of the stock coil, the black wire from the alternator and the orange wire to the choke to get power with the ignition turned on, into the red wire w/white trace that went to the old ignition module. Probably not the correct way, but it seems to be making sense to me.

Any recommendations on how to proceed are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!
 
#8 ·
You're going to need the black wire to the alternator. I think it's a resistance wire also.

The yellow wire to the coil you can dump.

Id' hook the e-choke up the proper way to the oil pressure switch. Just make sure the oil pressure switch has power going to it from someplace. Does he have the manifold heater hooked up to a relay properly?

Yes one of those wires has to go to the Ignition switch and the other one run to your distributor.

Check your voltages when you get done. If you have to run a relay, you haven't wasted any work as you can simply hook the wire that's running to the distributor to the relay to control turning it off and on.

Do you need a drawing?
 
#10 · (Edited)
Thank you for very much for the help. One of the reasons I put off the HEI (and Weber 38) conversion, is when I looked at the wiring from the previous owner I saw things that didn't look right.

So now I am into it!! LOL

Copy ditch the yellow wire. Copy need the black wire from the alternator. Copy attempt to hook the choke wire to the oil pressure sending unit. I believe the manifold heater is hooked up (see pic below). I plan to splice into the red wire w/white trace from the stock ignition module to the distributor. Will check voltages and if needed, while run a relay.

Couple of questions;

1- What do I do with the red wire from the solenoid that ran to the stock coil harness?
2- Where should I splice/route the black wire from the alternator?
3- In the event I can't wire the the e-choke to the oil pressure sender, can I leave it spliced with the red wire with white trace that went to the stock ignition module?

Pictures-

1- Oil pressure sending unit. Notice one wire is cut/missing out of the plug.
2- What I believe to be the manifold heater wire. It appears connected to a stock plug with an orange wire running to a relay.
 

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#13 ·
Thank you for very much for the help. One of the reasons I put off the HEI (and Weber 38) conversion, is when I looked at the wiring from the previous owner I saw things that didn't look right.

So now I am into it!! LOL

Copy ditch the yellow wire. Copy need the black wire from the alternator. Copy attempt to hook the choke wire to the oil pressure sending unit. I believe the manifold heater is hooked up (see pic below). I plan to splice into the red wire w/white trace from the stock ignition module to the distributor. Will check voltages and if needed, while run a relay.

Couple of questions;

1- What do I do with the red wire from the solenoid that ran to the stock coil harness?
You don't need it. But you could leave it connected to the (+) terminal on the CRT distributor.

It was to bypass the ballast resistor when starting the engine. without it, the voltage at the coil would drop to 5 or 6 volts which could of been too low for the engine to start well.

2- Where should I splice/route the black wire from the alternator?
If you can, leave it were it was in the splice.

3- In the event I can't wire the the e-choke to the oil pressure sender, can I leave it spliced with the red wire with white trace that went to the stock ignition module?
sigh, if you have to. You could always run the power wire from the ECM to to oil pressure switch also.
Usually the oil pressure switch gets it power from the backup light circuit.

I forgot to ask, do your backup lights work?

Pictures-

1- Oil pressure sending unit. Notice one wire is cut/missing out of the plug.
2- What I believe to be the manifold heater wire. It appears connected to a stock plug with an orange wire running to a relay.
1. Can you figure out which is which? Does the attached wire have power when the ignition is ON?


2. Looks good. The other wire goes to the cutoff temperature sensor in the manifold that should also run to the relay. It will shut off the electric manifold heater once the manifold reaches 160*.



Here is an overall setup with and without relay:
 

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#12 ·
Yes, there should be a fusable link there.

Schematic Font Parallel Engineering Plan


I can't say if that is making a bad connection or not. It's a simple metal sleeve crimped over both wires. Kinda like the familiar crimp connectors only without any insulation.

The factory used some type of tape that looked like duct tape because your usual black electrical tape can't handle the heat as well.
 
#14 ·
John and Ccoyle, thank you for the help!!

Copy on the fusible link. It did have tape over it as you described. I will try and find something compatible to cover it.

Reverse lights do work.

Today's plan;

Eliminate red wire from solenoid to coil.

Leave black wire from alternator spliced to it's current location (red wire w/white trace to stock ignition module).

Will standby on testing the wire on the oil pressure sending unit for power until after I can get the engine up and running.

Run new 10 ga wire from red wire w/white trace that used to run to to stock ignition module to CRT distributor.

Wait for CRT to call back ref to the distributor was damaged during shipping.
 
#15 ·
Sounds like you're on the right track. John is great with wiring - so I'd definitely listen to his advice. Here's a simplified diagram that's been floating around on the forum for a while if you end up needing to use a relay to get full voltage to the HEI. This is what I used. Keep in mind - If you have a factory tach it will complicate things a little....and you can't hook directly to the HEI - at least that is my understanding.

 
#17 ·
Ok, got rid of all the old stuff. Wired for the CRT distributor. Then received an unexpected follow up from Tom at Redline/Weber. With his guidance I installed the CRT and confirmed my wiring was correct, however the motor would not fire off.

Tom walked me through some troubleshooting and suggested I possibly did not find TDC. I also found the battery is showing 11.79 volts, with the lead to the CRT distributor showing the same.

While doing all this, I looked down and found my vent hose from the front distributor was cracked, so I replaced it.

Done for the night, will resume tomorrow with finding TDC.

Some pictures of today's venture-

1- Out with the old
2- Crack in front diff vent hose
3- In with the new
4- Almost there
 

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#20 · (Edited)
Before you button it up, you should probably make sure that your points (star wheel and reluctor, I believe they're called) are lined up at TDC. I chased a no-fire situation around for awhile once and I wasn't lined up correctly. I had to move it a tooth or two and reposition the wires.


Shawn

Edit: In fact, John's right. I had to move it from where you currently are (the reference mark in the below pic shows where I had it originally) to the post just over the vacuum canister.
 

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#21 ·
Shawn, thank you for the input.

Reverified TDC. Confirmed plug gap @ .045. Reverified firing order. Double checked plugs wires seated correctly. Found 11.84 volts at the distributor battery wire. Put battery on charge. Went to start, no fire.

Looked down carb didn't appear any fuel was squirting when I depressed the throttle. Even though my Jeep has the 2 outlet filter (with the return line at the 12 o'clock position) I installed a fuel pressure regulator when I put the Weber 38 on. Shot some starting fluid in the carb, Jeep fired off and died. Progress!!!

Correctly reconnected the fuel lines without the fuel pressure regulator and went to start again. Will fire if I spray some starting fluid, but will not stay running. Disconnect fuel line at the carb and no fuel seepage from line.

So I am tracing a fuel issue. The fuel pump is mechanical and prior to and during the Weber install, the fuel pump appeared to be providing enough fuel.

The fuel pump has been replaced sometime after 2015, but can't remember exactly when. New lines and filter when I put the Weber in.

But I am happy that it does at least fire off with a small shot of starting fluid. Will continue to trace fuel issues and report back. I have confidence she will be running today!!!
 
#25 ·
Pulled fuel line from carb and cranked motor. Fuel does flow while cranking. Spoke with Tom @redline/Weber again. Pulled carb top to ensure float level was set correctly (it was). Pulled "crush fuel screen" from under 3/4 bolt between fuel outlets and found a small piece of debris. Removed the debris and reinstalled "crush screen". Bowl looked low, filled to just above jets with fuel.

Verified fuel squirts when depressing accelerator. Would start and run for a few seconds then die before I could do anything else. Did this several times.

Looked down the carb again and did not see fuel squirts when working the accelerator... grrrr

Pinched off the fuel return line and it acting like it wanted to start, but the battery was done.

Bought new battery and NAPA gold fuel filter. Installed them and it started up!! Yay!! But didn't sound like all cylinders were firing. Rotated distributor each direction, seemed to help more with counter clockwise. Hooked up timing light, could not see timing mark.

Pulled plugs, cleaned them. Reset TDC. Now coughs and almost starts, but that is it.

Done for the night. Will try again tomm.
 
#26 ·
If you didn't have vacuum advance connected to a manifold source, please do give some thought to my post. For kicks and grins, mark the base directly under the post where you have #1 located, find TDC, remove the cap and see if your rotor is pointing at your mark, then remove the rotor and see if the points on your star wheel and reluctor are lined up.


Shawn
 
#27 ·
If you didn't have vacuum advance connected to a manifold source, please do give some thought to my post. For kicks and grins, mark the base directly under the post where you have #1 located, find TDC, remove the cap and see if your rotor is pointing at your mark, then remove the rotor and see if the points on your star wheel and reluctor are lined up.

Shawn
Shawn,

Thanks for the info. That is getting about above my head, but I see if I can wrap my pee brain around it! LOL

So... Dumb azz me. Just before I threw in the towel for the night, I reset TDC again. I double checked my plug wires and noticed I was 1-5-3-6-4-2, when it should be 1-5-3-6-2-4.... DUH!!!

Thant is all for tonight. Will continue tomm.
 
#29 ·
While we are waiting for some response about this HEI....

Remember last week, JeepinGeo the youngster with an outstanding attitude and enthusiasm?
He had a "similar" timing issue with his new CRT HEI.
He and his step-dad rotated his cap 90 degrees, because there are two notches/slots thinking there was a phase issue. That adjustment cleaned up the performance issue quite well.

His cap re-located in post #53
https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/tuning-advice-amc-258-a-4411735/

While we are waiting to hear what changed overnight.
UTN
 
#32 ·
Uptillnow, I previously consulted the thread you mention! :)

Today's battle and resolution!!!

Rechecked all wiring. Confirmed and verified TDC on the compression stroke (using rubber glove finger stuffed with tissue in #1 hole, rotated until it popped out). Confirmed proper firing order (1-5-3-6-2-4). Confirmed rotor pointing to #1 post. Confirmed battery voltage on new battery. Confirmed 2 outlet fuel filter orientation (return at the 12 o'clock position), with hose straight to fuel filter inlet from stock style mechanical fuel pump (fuel flow was confirmed yesterday).

Hooked up the timing light and a friend who has engine building background was able to come over. Attempted to start nothing. Friend suggest more counter counter clockwise rotation (way more than I previously did) on the distributor and she fired off!! Shut it down and restarted with a heck of racket. Did this 1 more time with the same result. Friend suggested it sounded like the starter motor gear was sticking and not returning. Dropped the starter and lubed with some oil.

Started up and it fired off. Got it warm and set timing to 8*. Adjusted idle mixture screws half turn out and idled smooth as silk.

Went for a test ride. No more stumble on acceleration!! Ran good. Idled good. Could probably use some minor carb adjustments, but she is back on the road!!!!

Many thanks to all who posted in this thread offering support and guidance and to 2 friends who provided phone support!!! Many, many, many thanks to Tom @ Redline/Weber for going above and beyond customer service (he walked me through ensuring the carb float was set at the proper height, among many other things)!!!

So, despite my limited knowledge and struggle and with the help from those above I consider the issue resolved!!!!:grin2:

Picture of the engine bay below.
 

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