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post #1 of 16 Old 10-20-2021, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
fibersport
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cooling question

As I slowly go through my '84 CJ7 with the 258 and T176 4 speed, I keep finding things poorly done. The current one I'm fixing is the fact that the heater core was not in the system so I had no heat. I ordered a new core and installed it last weekend. Last night I picked up some heater hose and connected everything. The PO already had a 3/4-5/8 brass reducer in one of the hoses so I simply used that along with the new hose I bought. Once everything was connected, I started it up and let it idle as I wanted to see how warm the interior would get. By the way, I already installed the larger blower fan that I got with another batch of parts and the YJ air deflector at your feet. After running for some time and getting air at about 110 degrees, I noticed little water flow in the radiator, which is a new aluminum aftermarket one. Even with revving up the engine, I really don't see any major water flow through the radiator. The coolant temp was about 160. I did check before that the thermostat was in the correct orientation, but I didn't even think to check the temperature range of it. I'm wondering if the PO could have installed the wrong water pump, my engine uses V belts. I remember years back with older vehicles, you would rev up the engine and the coolant would be circulating like mad through the radiator, with this one it's barely moving. I'm thinking of pulling the thermostat out just to check if the flow increases, and then checking to see what temperature it is - I will probably run a 180, sadly most of the emissions stuff has been stripped and we do test where I live.

Any thoughts on this low coolant flow?


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post #2 of 16 Old 10-20-2021, 12:32 PM
STJP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fibersport View Post
As I slowly go through my '84 CJ7 with the 258 and T176 4 speed, I keep finding things poorly done. The current one I'm fixing is the fact that the heater core was not in the system so I had no heat. I ordered a new core and installed it last weekend. Last night I picked up some heater hose and connected everything. The PO already had a 3/4-5/8 brass reducer in one of the hoses so I simply used that along with the new hose I bought. Once everything was connected, I started it up and let it idle as I wanted to see how warm the interior would get. By the way, I already installed the larger blower fan that I got with another batch of parts and the YJ air deflector at your feet. After running for some time and getting air at about 110 degrees, I noticed little water flow in the radiator, which is a new aluminum aftermarket one. Even with revving up the engine, I really don't see any major water flow through the radiator. The coolant temp was about 160. I did check before that the thermostat was in the correct orientation, but I didn't even think to check the temperature range of it. I'm wondering if the PO could have installed the wrong water pump, my engine uses V belts. I remember years back with older vehicles, you would rev up the engine and the coolant would be circulating like mad through the radiator, with this one it's barely moving. I'm thinking of pulling the thermostat out just to check if the flow increases, and then checking to see what temperature it is - I will probably run a 180, sadly most of the emissions stuff has been stripped and we do test where I live.

Any thoughts on this low coolant flow?
It would seem to me if the water temperature is 160 F, unless you have a 160 degree or lower thermostat, the thermostat would remain closed thus no flow.

JS
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post #3 of 16 Old 10-20-2021, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
fibersport
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Good point, maybe there's a 180 or 195 thermostat already in there .... Is the thermostat fully open at the marked temperature or does it start to open at that temperature? I suppose I can look into that -

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post #4 of 16 Old 10-20-2021, 04:50 PM
Rkuehljr
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Iím just getting mine back on the road and since I installed a Sniper, I am watching the coolant temp in the intake manifold as the Sniper doesnít learn until the temp is over 160. The thermostat in mine is 195 which NAPA lists as the OEM. My problem is that I canít seem to build enough heat for the Sniper to learn. I drove it to work last week and the Sniper was showing temps in the 130s driving down the freeway at 65. It was a cool morning, but I sure expected more. It got a little warmer on the drive home, but certainly not like the thermostat was open and flowing. I have also been peaking in the radiator and There is very little flow, just what is going through the heater core.

Long winded, but I guess my point is, they donít seem to make much heat.


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post #5 of 16 Old 10-20-2021, 05:37 PM
Girth83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fibersport View Post
Good point, maybe there's a 180 or 195 thermostat already in there .... Is the thermostat fully open at the marked temperature or does it start to open at that temperature? I suppose I can look into that -
They'll usually start to open at their rated temp, and then fully open as the temp climbs. I just tested my 195 t-stat before I put it in, and that's what it did. Just started to open around 190*, and was noticeably open around 210. Wife looked at me like I was crazy, hanging the thermostat in a pot of water on the stove.



Maybe it's been too long since, or some have never driven old cars? In cold weather, a piece of cardboard between the grill and radiator is an easy way to make sure you get heat inside. lol Don't need to block it off totally, but blocking a bit of the airflow helps sometimes.
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post #6 of 16 Old 10-20-2021, 06:36 PM
JEEPFELLER
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Do you have a FAN CLUTCH on your fan?

Jump on a 195 degree stat---Should be a given.

Welcome to the CJ world---stay toasty in the Summer, toastier w/ top and doors----Mega A/C in the Winter, varying w/ doors or top removed.

Mine has no fan clutch and as much as I wish it did, it is impossible to fit one.

I have heat, many think it's adequate for my '77 CJ-5, it is better than nothing----I HAVE BEEN SEEKING MORE FOR A LONG TIME

I have gotten more than the average CJer would normally get.

Read my whole thread---some of my ideas are good, EZ working solutions.

https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/warmth-4412333/

I have mostly thought of everything that others have suggested, the "seat idea" has me almost "caught".

I know I can do more than I have already-----I just ain't had that 10,000 Watt light bulb appear over my head lately.

----JEEPFELLER
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post #7 of 16 Old 10-20-2021, 09:46 PM
BrutusBlue
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It does sound like a thermostat not opening problem.

Rk—the Sniper learn temperature issue is a very interesting point. I run LS motors so I’m familiar with MAF tunes with Holley and OEM computers but a buddy of mine has been fighting similar issues on SBC stroker motor with FI tech system. What you described could very well explain his issue. Thanks for posting that.
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post #8 of 16 Old 10-21-2021, 09:02 AM
bob4703
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From what I saw here I had thought for years that the thermostat in our 74 was supposed to be a 195*. Then I looked in the TSM which says that the 258 and 232 engines require a 205* thermostat. I'll make that change the next time I crack open the cooling system. That could explain why the heater doesn't work well on cold days plus the only top I have is a Bikini and my doors are half doors. A Windjammer and a Carhartt barn coat makes it tolerable.

JEEPFELLER was spotted airing out his snowmobile suits this week.

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post #9 of 16 Old 10-21-2021, 04:36 PM
BagusJeep
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If your engine is running at 160 you may have no thermostat at all.

The amount of flow with the cap open depends on the radiator design. i would start off by changing the $5 thermostat and having a look.

A reverse water pump usually has an R on it. But your engine temperature would rise far past 160 very quickly.

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #10 of 16 Old 10-21-2021, 05:36 PM
ECJ-7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fibersport View Post
As I slowly go through my '84 CJ7 with the 258 and T176 4 speed, I keep finding things poorly done. The current one I'm fixing is the fact that the heater core was not in the system so I had no heat. I ordered a new core and installed it last weekend. Last night I picked up some heater hose and connected everything. The PO already had a 3/4-5/8 brass reducer in one of the hoses so I simply used that along with the new hose I bought. Once everything was connected, I started it up and let it idle as I wanted to see how warm the interior would get. By the way, I already installed the larger blower fan that I got with another batch of parts and the YJ air deflector at your feet. After running for some time and getting air at about 110 degrees, I noticed little water flow in the radiator, which is a new aluminum aftermarket one. Even with revving up the engine, I really don't see any major water flow through the radiator. The coolant temp was about 160. I did check before that the thermostat was in the correct orientation, but I didn't even think to check the temperature range of it. I'm wondering if the PO could have installed the wrong water pump, my engine uses V belts. I remember years back with older vehicles, you would rev up the engine and the coolant would be circulating like mad through the radiator, with this one it's barely moving. I'm thinking of pulling the thermostat out just to check if the flow increases, and then checking to see what temperature it is - I will probably run a 180, sadly most of the emissions stuff has been stripped and we do test where I live.

Any thoughts on this low coolant flow?
From what you wrote I'd say you don't have any problem.' The engine makes heat in BTU's, your cooling system gets rid of those BTU's of heat. The harder you work your engine the more BTU's it will make. Being in Valparaiso, IN, I'm guessing you were testing it on a 50-60 degree day.
At Idle on a 50-60 degree day, your heater is probably removing more BTU's than your engine was making. So the T-Stat never had to open, thus no flow in the radiator.

PS. With an engine at 195 degrees, your heater should put out around 140. At the 110 you had I'd say it wasn't up to operating temp.
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post #11 of 16 Old 10-21-2021, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
fibersport
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it's making sense now, the no flow was because the engine hadn't gotten warm enough to open the thermostat. ECJ-7's comment pretty much hit the nail on the head as did STJP's. BagusJeep - it does have a thermostat as I had checked that it was installed correctly during the summer. Your comment about it overheating if it were the wrong waterpump makes me feel more confident as well. Maybe this weekend when I'm poking around with it I'll cover up the radiator a bit to get the temperature high enough to open the thermostat just to be sure it's all working. Many things the PO did make me question just about everything on the Jeep! Thanks everyone -
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post #12 of 16 Old 10-22-2021, 03:43 AM
BagusJeep
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If you have the engine running it will open the thermostat eventually, covering up the radiator with no flow will not make any difference. It should not stay at 160 if you have the correct thermostat in it.

If it was set up incorrectly, the usual sign is overheating. As yours is running cool, it will either heat up or your thermostat is open way too low.

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #13 of 16 Old 10-22-2021, 04:50 AM
ECJ-7
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Just turn the idle screw up a little, mine idles around 500rpm, if yours is the same turn it up to 1000. that should get it to warm up a little quicker.
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post #14 of 16 Old 10-22-2021, 08:20 AM
exheep
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Like Bagus said your thermostat is either open too low or is stuck open.
You donít by chance have a ďfail safeĒ stat in it? By design they stick open during overheating but will not return to closed.
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post #15 of 16 Old 10-22-2021, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
fibersport
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Thermostat is not stuck open, otherwise I would see flow through the radiator. As everyone has said, it just hasn't gotten up to temperature yet.

1984 CJ7 Renegade
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