CJ5 or CJ7? VIN Tub switch? Assistance plz - Page 2 - JeepForum.com
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post #16 of 38 Old 07-30-2021, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
northfeather
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Thanks Bagus...yep, the VIN plate screws were one of the red flags when I went to pick it up. Didn't matter to me...I was buying it right (not at some inflated '72 price). Thanks for the other tidbit I didn't know. Roundel photo attached.
And Jeepdaddy thanks for those others as well. The tranny id is on my list. There's an hour of pressure washing that's needed before all those items!

I'll register it today as I purchased it. It doesn't bother me one bit. And as mentioned, if I sell one day, I'll share the little bit that I know in the advertisement. 90% plus percent of Jeep owners won't give a hoot if they know up front...IMO.

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post #17 of 38 Old 07-30-2021, 09:21 AM
bob4703
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Think twice before doing the registration. It is illegal in 50 states and in D.C. do so. You may run the risk of confiscation and being charged with a felony. This how chop shops sell stolen cars. They buy a salvage yard vehicle and steal one to match.

My wife bought our 74 without a title. It came from a state that didn't issue titles for vehicles over 25 years old. To register it our DMV had to verify the VIN in two locations. Luckily the dash VIN sticker is still readable. The clerk was happy she didn't have to go under to find a number on the frame. She had a book with pictures as where to look. The VIN had to clear research before we got a title. Any LEO with a basic knowledge of Jeeps will know the difference between a CJ5 and a CJ7.

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post #18 of 38 Old 07-30-2021, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
northfeather
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Thanks Bob
It already has a "clean" Montana title and there are no vehicle inspections at registration (still old fashioned up here in some regards). City folk are moving in by droves though and catalytic converters are being stolen now...so Montana is on it's way out soon too.
The Jeep is what it is. I've had both numbers checked and neither are reported/listed as stolen and the rest is just a story/history. Nothing has been done in malice during this current transaction and that's good enough for me.
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post #19 of 38 Old 07-30-2021, 07:04 PM
BrutusBlue
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Wish people wouldn’t post their full VIN or LP.

You can also pull the tank if your so inclined...on the under side of the “S” shaped tank cross member almost in the center of the upper flat face is a stamped series of numbers and letters.

Example, if yours was an 84 (looks like an 82 or newer, wide track) it will look like this :

# ## 84 #
## #
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post #20 of 38 Old 07-30-2021, 07:51 PM
87MJTim
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The VIN is stamped on the top of the frame in the passenger side rear wheel well. Try looking there for a VIN to match the frame.
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post #21 of 38 Old 07-30-2021, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
northfeather
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Thanks Brutus, Pulling the tank is on my agenda due to an old hose and non-working gas gauge.
The full VIN is too much information for the general internet public? Is that what you mean?

Thanks 87MJ, however that won't help. CJ7 frame couldn't match a CJ5 VIN
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post #22 of 38 Old 07-30-2021, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoonHoss View Post
Uh oh....

So it has a straight 6 258 in it?

That's definitely a CJ7 tub, and if you have the straight 6, most likely the front clip as well, as the 72 nose want long enough to fit the straight 6.

Does the frame have any cut/extension marks? Got more pictures? Shock towers, axle widths, etc

I'd be very leery of this one, unfortunately, because it is definitely NOT what the title says.

Hoss
1972 was actually the first year AMC made changes after buying Kaiser in late 1970. One was the extended nose for the CJ5, CJ6 to fit the new motors inline 232, inline 258, 304v8.....my first Jeep was a 1975, the last of that body series (72-75) with the 304.

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post #23 of 38 Old 07-31-2021, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAZCAT View Post
1972 was actually the first year AMC made changes after buying Kaiser in late 1970....
Fair enough, and I stand corrected.. (but this Jeep still isn't a '72, or A CJ5)

Hoss
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post #24 of 38 Old 09-25-2021, 01:14 PM
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Could you give me an article in a news publication or e publication that says someone was arrested or their vehicle “confiscated” for having a tub from one vintage attached to the frame of another?
Or the docket numbers of a criminal or civil case? Involving old Jeeps. ? Tub of different frame? you can buy those vin plate rivets online. Guess everyone who made a Meyers Manx dune buggie in the 60s is doing life in Q?

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post #25 of 38 Old 09-25-2021, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by intheair View Post
Could you give me an article in a news publication or e publication that says someone was arrested or their vehicle “confiscated” for having a tub from one vintage attached to the frame of another?
Most recent I read about

https://www.kctv5.com/news/investiga...6541ca4f9.html

And that's for just not having it attached with the factory style rivets.

Now, that said, certainly there are states where it doesn't matter as much, and. Oddities (vehicle in a deer lease only) where it may not matter as well, but the fact remains that you can have serious issues regulating and or selling a vehicle with the wrong VIN/title, and it is illegal.

I have spent a LOT of time at our local state patrol vehicle/vessel inspection station due to work (long story, but it has to do with drug seized vehicles), and they absolutely can and do check the vin plate across title, as well as frame markings, especially for wrecked, non titles, and out of state vehicles looking to register. I have personally seen them impound a vehicle (which is then forfeited thru court, and typically crushed, or returned to an insurance agency) due to a mis titled or questionable VIN.

It absolutely is illegal
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/511

In the case of a Meyers Manx, or any of the other many kit/custom built cars, you have to have the proper documents and go through state patrol inspection in order to get them legally titled. Same goes for reconstructed vehicles.

Hoss

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post #26 of 38 Old 09-25-2021, 04:19 PM
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Looks post 82 by the fact it has wires going to where the computer would be

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post #27 of 38 Old 09-25-2021, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87MJTim View Post
The VIN is stamped on the top of the frame in the passenger side rear wheel well. Try looking there for a VIN to match the frame.

That is really good advice. If you find the real VIN # you could try registering it as actual and apply for a new title. Any funny stuff would show up, and if all is good then you would be better off in a resale situation down the road. CYB.
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post #28 of 38 Old 09-26-2021, 08:53 AM
intheair
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Is that an “old Jeep “ with a tub swap? No it is not.

I am not talking about someone’s classic Vette or Jerry Seinfeld’s Porsche Speedster. The Nevada DMV charges $50-100 to register a 60s to 70s CJ5. If it is registered in rural Nevada or over 40 years old it is smog exempt. The DMV does not bother with someone putting recycled body parts on an old frame. Give me an article or docket number of some case of someone putting a kit body or different body on some old frame getting the book thrown at them. High end thefts or vin fraud is one thing - antidotal accounts of “I heard of a guy blah blah…”

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post #29 of 38 Old 09-26-2021, 08:57 AM
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It is a news story about a classic Corvette- do they use “tubs”??? Replacing damaged body parts with nos , recycled or reproduction parts is not “altering a vin number”. and is not illegal.

Please provide Article or docket number of a person swapping/replacing a Jeep tub being prosecuted of having their vehicle seized. ?? If it happens all the time you certainly can find one. DMVs generally have better things to do the chasing down someone who cobbles together some body on frame vehicle. Is this vehicle illegal? Call the FBI !!
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post #30 of 38 Old 09-26-2021, 09:16 AM
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The VIN stamped into the frame is only a partial, no serial numbers. So can't be used for registration, it will give info on year, engine, trans and model as it left the factory.
As long as it is a clear title, I wouldn't worry about it.
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