CJ Electrical Help - Constant Power to the Coil - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 19 Old 07-14-2020, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
wstylz
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CJ Electrical Help - Constant Power to the Coil

Hello all - I am a newbie and this is my first post. I know I need to get my profile up and will get to that in the next few days.

I just finished rewiring my 83 CJ 258 with a centech wiring kit. No ECU. Upgraded ignition. All worked prior to the rewire. All seemed to go well until I started testing things out. With the key in off, I am getting constant power at the I terminal of the solenoid and the coil is very hot. The I term wire goes to the ballast resistor which is also hot, and then back to the coil. When the IGN was plugged in that was getting hot as well.

Could this be a bad solenoid? Or maybe the ignition switch? Both are new. Any ideas?

Glad to be here and thanks in advance.

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post #2 of 19 Old 07-14-2020, 07:41 PM
John Strenk
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First I would disconnect the ICM before you burn it up.

When you pull the red wire off the "I" terminal on the solenoid, does the "I" terminal still have power all the time?

Pull the 2 wire terminal off the alternator, Does the (+) on the ignition coil still have power?

Do you have the battery cables on the correct side of the solenoid?

Post a quick drawing of how you rewired the ignition system.


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post #3 of 19 Old 07-14-2020, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
wstylz
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When you pull the red wire off the "I" terminal on the solenoid, does the "I" terminal still have power all the time?

YES. I REMOVED THE WIRE FROM THE I TERMINAL AND THE I TERMINAL STILL HAD POWER. THE COIL NO LONGER HAD POWER.

Pull the 2 wire terminal off the alternator, Does the (+) on the ignition coil still have power?

YES THE (+) ON THE IGNITION COIL STILL HAS POWER.

Do you have the battery cables on the correct side of the solenoid?

BATTERY CABLE IS ON THE SIDE POST NEAR THE "S". THE CABLE GOING TO THE STARTER IS ON THE SIDE NEAR THE "I".

Post a quick drawing of how you rewired the ignition system.

I followed the diagrams of both the centech and the painless kits, which are basically the same for the ford/duraspark setup. I am not able to post links or pics yet because I dont have enough posts yet. But essentially I followed the painless diagram on page 103 of painless manual 90513 (part #10150). "I" terminal goes to the (+) side of the coil and to the ballast...other side of the ballast goes to the bulkhead and to the red wire of the two prong terminal of the ICM. The bkue wire of this same two prong terminal goes to the "S" terminal. A start wire from the bulkhead also meets up at the "S" terminal.

The only real difference in the two diagrams is that for centech, instead of the start wire and the blue wire from the ICM both going to the "S" terminal of the solenoid, these two wires are spliced together near the bulkhead and then go over to the "S" terminal.

After doing your tests above, am I correct in my assumption that I should not have the constant power on the I terminal, and thus the solenoid is the likely culprit?

Thanks for this.
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post #4 of 19 Old 07-14-2020, 09:08 PM
John Strenk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wstylz View Post
When you pull the red wire off the "I" terminal on the solenoid, does the "I" terminal still have power all the time?

YES. I REMOVED THE WIRE FROM THE I TERMINAL AND THE I TERMINAL STILL HAD POWER. THE COIL NO LONGER HAD POWER.

Pull the 2 wire terminal off the alternator, Does the (+) on the ignition coil still have power?

YES THE (+) ON THE IGNITION COIL STILL HAS POWER.

Do you have the battery cables on the correct side of the solenoid?

BATTERY CABLE IS ON THE SIDE POST NEAR THE "S". THE CABLE GOING TO THE STARTER IS ON THE SIDE NEAR THE "I".

Post a quick drawing of how you rewired the ignition system.

I followed the diagrams of both the centech and the painless kits, which are basically the same for the ford/duraspark setup. I am not able to post links or pics yet because I dont have enough posts yet. But essentially I followed the painless diagram on page 103 of painless manual 90513 (part #10150). "I" terminal goes to the (+) side of the coil and to the ballast...other side of the ballast goes to the bulkhead and to the red wire of the two prong terminal of the ICM. The bkue wire of this same two prong terminal goes to the "S" terminal. A start wire from the bulkhead also meets up at the "S" terminal.

The only real difference in the two diagrams is that for centech, instead of the start wire and the blue wire from the ICM both going to the "S" terminal of the solenoid, these two wires are spliced together near the bulkhead and then go over to the "S" terminal.

After doing your tests above, am I correct in my assumption that I should not have the constant power on the I terminal, and thus the solenoid is the likely culprit?

Thanks for this.
Yes, you assume correctly. You should not have power in the I terminal with it disconnected.

One way this happens if you do not use two wrenched when tightening doWn the posts on the battery terminal on the starter solenoid . you can accidentally twist the post and one end stays in contact with the contact leading to the I terminal


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post #5 of 19 Old 07-14-2020, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
wstylz
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Great. I will pick up a new one and post back if I have any other questions. Thanks for the help. You made this nice and easy for me.

Will
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post #6 of 19 Old 07-20-2020, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Starter won't disengage

So previously I had constant power to the coil. Determined this was the solenoid. So while I wait to get the new solenoid, I replaced the new one with the old one (hadn't been started in 3 years).

The issue now is that the starter won't disengage. I turned it over a few times and nothing, then I tried again and it just keeps turning no matter where the key is at...start, run, off. Had to remove the negative on the battery to get it to shut off. It was getting late so I left it as is for the night, but wanted to post here to see if there were any ideas to help narrow down what it could be.

Could this also be a coil issue? Should I just wait until I get a new coil and try again?

I have also recently replaced the ignition switch on the column. Could it be a bad switch? Not set or adjusted properly?

Thanks for the help.
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post #7 of 19 Old 07-21-2020, 12:46 AM
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solenoid could be sticking. It is not related to the coil itself.

Get the new solenoid and make sure you wire it correctly, following John's advice on tightening the posts.

BagusJeep lives in Bali.

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post #8 of 19 Old 07-21-2020, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks. Should have the new solenoid later today and will see what happens.

How do I know for sure I have the ignition switch set properly? It appears to go through all of the clicks correctly, but just wondering if there is anything I need to check. Seemed a little too simple to just insert it over the end of the rod and screw on.
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post #9 of 19 Old 07-21-2020, 10:00 AM
John Strenk
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One interesting way to adjust it was to hold the key in the accessory position, pull the ignition switch towards the fire wall, tighten the screws.

If I count right, that would require 3 hands though.

Another way I read, but cant find in any jeep manual, is that there is suppose to be an alignment hole that you put a pin into nd then bolt the switch down. 'But I never saw it in any jeep manuals that i can remember. But maybe it wasn't even on a jeep.
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post #10 of 19 Old 07-21-2020, 10:23 AM
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My pic 1

I have a '77 CJ-5

Pretty much the '76-'86 solenoids wire up the same.

I have modified mine a little bit.

THE SOLENOID DOES NOT CARE which big post is used for the Positive battery cable and the stuff that stacks against it,

as long as the starter cable is all by itself on the other big terminal.

The wire to "c" post is called the "S" wire (actually on the "S" Post---c was just a reference). If you remove it and test it (the wire) with a voltmeter, it should be dead. It should have Battery voltage with the Key turned to the "start position" (this wire activates the solenoid and cannot be swapped with "d" (The "I" teminal)

If the key is NOT in the "start position", this wire should be dead, no other "live" wires should be tied into it. If the starter won't stop turning, the solenoid is internally stuck/ contact plates are welded together. Or you have some more kind of a hum-dinger wrong wiring issue going on!


My second diagram, this confused me the 1st time I checked it!

Here's the thing!

"I" on the solenoid is dead, until you crank the Jeep, then "I" gets full battery voltage from the solenoid to "Boost" the coil during start up. When you release the key "I" dies again.

OR DOES IT?

Test it while running, you will get voltage at "I" if you left the wire on it.

Why?

Go back and look at the "TEE" in the wires at the coil.

The one from the resistance wire has voltage as soon as the key is turned to "ON" (It is reduced voltage) It feeds right on through the tee and on to the "I" terminal of the solenoid when the Jeep is running (and of course to the coil).

So "I" is really dead with the "START POSITION" being released and the juice getting to it now is from the "ON" position of the key feeding power to the coil.

Maybe that's not too confusing!

----JEEPFELLER
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post #11 of 19 Old 07-21-2020, 10:34 AM
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Followed you all the way till:
Quote:
So "I" is really dead with the "START POSITION" being released and the juice getting to it now is from the "ON" position of the key feeding power to the coil.
But I figured out what I think you are saying..

So the "I" terminal voltage should have whatever the batter is putting out when cranking.
Then the "I" terminal should be around 9 volts or whatever voltage is on the coils (+) terminal.


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post #12 of 19 Old 07-22-2020, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks. I'll have to get a few kids hands to help try that once the rains let up.
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post #13 of 19 Old 07-22-2020, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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JeepFeller - I am confused on your last diagram and part about the resistance wire. You show that ignition box red/tr wire is spliced into the resistance wire going to the coil and I post, but then you say "do not tie into the resistance wire". My setup is similar to the diagram but the splice is actually where I have a ballast resistor.
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post #14 of 19 Old 07-23-2020, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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3rd time is a charm! New solendoid in and everything on the battery/solenoid/starter side seems good. Power is correct across the terminals in start/run/acc/off positions so that was an easy fix.

Now it is on to the fuel/ignition side of things. When trying to start it wont fire and there is no smell of gas at all. I havent checked the spark yet, but plugs/wires and ICM are new. I have also replaced the fuel pump and filters, rubber lines, recently dropped the tank and cleaned and replaced the sender. Carb was new 3 years ago, but this has been sitting for a while. My first guess is that my carb jets are clogged...hopefully can look at it tonight. Have to get some real work done now to pay for my grown up toys.
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post #15 of 19 Old 07-23-2020, 10:50 AM
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That's great news,
Best to start a new post with your other challenges though.
People that could help you might not look under an electrical problem post.


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