CJ with 350 TBI running hot HW speeds uphill - Page 3 - JeepForum.com
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post #31 of 82 Old 02-21-2016, 05:32 PM
Shawn Watson
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All good points, fellas. The winch keeps popping up in my head but maybe it's not as big a deal as it seems in my little brain.


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post #32 of 82 Old 02-22-2016, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
cowboyx
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Thanks everyone for the input. One thing that I didn't make clear was that this problem has existed since I bought the jeep few years ago, and was occurring with the stock radiator and pump. I'm going to add a hi flow thermostat in a few days and I'll post an update here. Thanks again.
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post #33 of 82 Old 02-22-2016, 04:17 PM
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In looking at the Ford Contour setup and the area covered by the shroud I see little difference between that and the area covered by a shroud on the mechanical fan. They are both only allowing air to pass through the radiator unimpeded through the hole where the fan blades actually are. The surface area is not much different between the two. I've seen many cases where that setup worked perfect so I'm not convinced the electric fan is a bad idea. Why some have had better success with a mechanical fan I'm not disputing either. Some cases the electric fan is the only solution such as the engine sitting too high or low to allow the fan to be close enough to the center of the radiator then the mechanical fan is out unless you want an offset drive made for the fan which to me adds to many more things to break. With enough time and effort anything can e made to work for the most part.


As gmarka said it may not be an issue but what might happen is that if you do have a cooling problem it may get worse and become an issue. I don't like seeing a temp gauge climb much if any above the t-stat rating. Also since you mention this going on for years maybe it's time to flush the cooling system.


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post #34 of 82 Old 02-22-2016, 04:46 PM
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Few quick questions, are you running through the heater core? Are you using the in-radiator trans cooler, as well as the external, if so, which one is first to get hot fluid? I would as others have said, get a couple more temp gauges with the push in probes and check the incoming and outgoing temps on the radiator. The high flow pump and t-stat may not help if the antifreeze is not in the radiator long enough to transfer temp out and absorb it when in the block.

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post #35 of 82 Old 02-22-2016, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dryseals View Post
I suggest you do a little bit of study on the thermal conductivity properties of Aluminum vs copper or any other material and how laminar flow and turbulent flow effect heat transfer. Then we can talk about surface area, air flow and other parameters.

Give the poster a logical analysis of why he is experiencing over heating on hill climbs, not a sales pitch from a radiator manufacturer. That's all I ever ask.
I suggest you re-read the statement I quoted as well as my first sentence in that post. Try not to read more into than that first sentence.

No idea what you're implying about a sales pitch from a radiator manufacturer.
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post #36 of 82 Old 02-23-2016, 05:59 AM
Dryseals
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Originally Posted by CSP View Post
I suggest you re-read the statement I quoted as well as my first sentence in that post. Try not to read more into than that first sentence.

No idea what you're implying about a sales pitch from a radiator manufacturer.
Your first sentence "A radiators efficiency isn't dictated by the material it's constructed from."

Thermal conductivity (Btu/(hr oF ft)) at 68 degree F (The ability to transfer heat)
Aluminum 118
Copper 223
Copper is 1.8 time more conductive than aluminum, almost double. So to get the same cooling as a copper radiator, you would have to almost double the surface area.

Then you said

"Surface area is what makes a radiator efficient and aluminum allows for a MUCH greater surface area for cooling (larger tubes with more fins and tighter tube spacing) than CU could ever allow, unless the CU radiator were to weigh 100 pounds".

Surface area is true, but the fact that copper conducts better, you only need half the size of the aluminum to get the same btu transfer.

Manufacturer are pushing the aluminum because its so much cheaper.

current commodities price
Aluminum $0.69 cents a pound
Copper $2.08 a pound
Copper is three times the price of aluminum

cubic foot weight
Aluminum 168.48 pounds
Copper 559.87 pounds
Aluminum is 3 time lighter than copper...can we say decreased transportation and handling costs.

Melting points copper 1984 degree F....aluminum 1221 degree F.... So the energy cost for a manufactuer to make that copper radiator is one third higher...

Aluminum has a lot of advantages, weight wise and cost wise, but for heat transfer, its just not as good as copper.
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post #37 of 82 Old 02-23-2016, 07:18 AM
Matt1981CJ7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim1611 View Post
In looking at the Ford Contour setup and the area covered by the shroud I see little difference between that and the area covered by a shroud on the mechanical fan. They are both only allowing air to pass through the radiator unimpeded through the hole where the fan blades actually are.
Actually, Jim, a factory-style shroud allows more air flow than just the hole where the fan blades are. No portion of the shroud blocks the air at 90* angles like the Contour fan does. See pic.

I find Jeff's earlier post be the most compelling, so far. He had the exact same symptoms as the OP, and a mechanical fan/shroud fixed it.

I hope the OP keeps us updated.

Matt
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post #38 of 82 Old 02-23-2016, 08:12 PM
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Dryseals we will just have to agree to disagree. You're ignoring the fins and resulting heat transfer from airflow across those fins with your thermal conductivity theory.
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post #39 of 82 Old 02-23-2016, 09:27 PM
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Dryseals we will just have to agree to disagree. You're ignoring the fins and resulting heat transfer from airflow across those fins with your thermal conductivity theory.
I think the truth is in the middle, the Cu works better but not as much as the thermal property would indicate. Think about the extremes - perfect conductor - all metal the same temp and max heat transfer, perfect insulator - no heat transfer. But since the biggest delta T is on the air metal interface, it dominates the transfer.

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post #40 of 82 Old 02-23-2016, 11:54 PM
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My CJ has a tbi 350 with a stock 2 row radiator. No overheating issues except at very slow speeds. I contribute this to the lack of a shroud. She will drive all day at 70mph, up hills and down. Ooh yeah. I also have a 9500 lb warn winch up front.

That said, I'm wondering if engine tuning could be a contributor. Timing off, running lean, plugs the wrong heat range ect.... After all, he said this problem has existed for some time....
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post #41 of 82 Old 02-24-2016, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CSP View Post
Dryseals we will just have to agree to disagree. You're ignoring the fins and resulting heat transfer from airflow across those fins with your thermal conductivity theory.
Agree, we can disagree, but I might add, by no means am I ignoring the fins.
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post #42 of 82 Old 02-24-2016, 06:45 PM
Dryseals
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Originally Posted by dg6772 View Post
My CJ has a tbi 350 with a stock 2 row radiator. No overheating issues except at very slow speeds. I contribute this to the lack of a shroud. She will drive all day at 70mph, up hills and down. Ooh yeah. I also have a 9500 lb warn winch up front.

That said, I'm wondering if engine tuning could be a contributor. Timing off, running lean, plugs the wrong heat range ect.... After all, he said this problem has existed for some time....
This leads me to believe that the original poster may have coolant flow problems as I said in the beginning.

Is this the stock radiator from a 4.2 your running?
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post #43 of 82 Old 02-25-2016, 04:47 AM
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It is. When I got it, it was converted to GM fittings.
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post #44 of 82 Old 02-25-2016, 05:18 AM
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Don't most guys use a 3-row radiator with V8s?

I believe the factory did.

Matt


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post #45 of 82 Old 02-25-2016, 05:42 AM
Dryseals
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Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
Don't most guys use a 3-row radiator with V8s?

I believe the factory did.

Matt
What kind of radiator are you running Matt?

I'm still of the thought the largers tubes of the Griffen do not create enough turbulence and dj6772's setup semi proves that.
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