Choke plate wonít close on start up - manual is a bit confusing. - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 13 Old 04-17-2021, 07:34 AM Thread Starter
sampsonrustic
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Choke plate wonít close on start up - manual is a bit confusing.

Working through Haynes manual protocol but Iím not really getting the idea of how to set this thing.

86 2.5L 4 cylinder

The plate is not seized and seems to be connected - it just sits in this position.





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post #2 of 13 Old 04-17-2021, 08:03 AM
John Strenk
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A Carter YFA.

With the engine cold, and you step on the gas, does it close all the way?

Ambient temperature has some effect also. If it's hot outside It might not close all the way.

Looks like it has an electric choke so that's a plus.

After the engine is running and you goose the gas pedal a couple of times, does it open all the way?

To adjust it there should be some screws on the ring that holds the choke cover down. (part were wire connects) turn the cover and the choke should move.
Sometimes the ring is pop riveted in place and the normal procedure is to drill out the pop rivets and install self tapping screws.

There are basically 3 positions the choke plate should be in.

1. When cold, engine not running, the choke should be fully closed. ( It might take stepping on the gas pedal once or twice to free it)
2. After engine starts but still cold, it should open a little. the correct open distance should be in the manual.
3. When engine is warm enough the choke plate should be fully open.

If the haynes manual is not clear, try downloading the factory manual. that procedure is pretty clear how to set it up.

I have found that there is a counter weight on the side of the carb that controls the idle steps and if the counter weight is stuck, it can keep the choke from moving properly.


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post #3 of 13 Old 04-17-2021, 10:16 AM
mudbfun
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If that is where your choke sits on a cold morning then it definitely needs to be tweaked. But if that is where it is on a warm day, or after the motor is warmed up then the adjustment might be ok.


Sometimes I have had good results by simply setting the choke to where it is barely closed on a cold morning.
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post #4 of 13 Old 04-17-2021, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
sampsonrustic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudbfun View Post
If that is where your choke sits on a cold morning then it definitely needs to be tweaked. But if that is where it is on a warm day, or after the motor is warmed up then the adjustment might be ok.


Sometimes I have had good results by simply setting the choke to where it is barely closed on a cold morning.

Thanks. Would you call 45/50 degrees cold?


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post #5 of 13 Old 04-17-2021, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sampsonrustic View Post
Thanks. Would you call 45/50 degrees cold?


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Meh. Like I said, barely closed. Not sure how cold it gets where you are but you dont want it to close up too much. If it is not wide open after running a while then you know you closed it too much.
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post #6 of 13 Old 04-17-2021, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
A Carter YFA.

With the engine cold, and you step on the gas, does it close all the way?

Ambient temperature has some effect also. If it's hot outside It might not close all the way.

Looks like it has an electric choke so that's a plus.

After the engine is running and you goose the gas pedal a couple of times, does it open all the way?

To adjust it there should be some screws on the ring that holds the choke cover down. (part were wire connects) turn the cover and the choke should move.
Sometimes the ring is pop riveted in place and the normal procedure is to drill out the pop rivets and install self tapping screws.

There are basically 3 positions the choke plate should be in.

1. When cold, engine not running, the choke should be fully closed. ( It might take stepping on the gas pedal once or twice to free it)
2. After engine starts but still cold, it should open a little. the correct open distance should be in the manual.
3. When engine is warm enough the choke plate should be fully open.

If the haynes manual is not clear, try downloading the factory manual. that procedure is pretty clear how to set it up.

I have found that there is a counter weight on the side of the carb that controls the idle steps and if the counter weight is stuck, it can keep the choke from moving properly.

Thanks.

So with the engine off, when I pull the throttle linkage, nothing happens to the choke. It just sits there like in the picture.

If I push on the choke plate, it will easily open more, but it doesnít want to close.

It almost feels like itís not under tension correctly.

With the engine running, if I pull the throttle linkage, it also just kind of sits there open, maybe moving a tiny bit when I blip it.

Some videos and pictures here:

https://imgur.com/gallery/UZOtsud


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post #7 of 13 Old 04-17-2021, 03:05 PM
mudbfun
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I see you live in LA. I guess 45* actually is cold.



Just take your time and use a little trial and error to get it working for your climate. The trick is to get it to close just enough to fire up when it is cold.
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post #8 of 13 Old 04-17-2021, 03:17 PM
John Strenk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sampsonrustic View Post
Thanks.

So with the engine off, when I pull the throttle linkage, nothing happens to the choke. It just sits there like in the picture.

If I push on the choke plate, it will easily open more, but it doesnít want to close.

It almost feels like itís not under tension correctly.

With the engine running, if I pull the throttle linkage, it also just kind of sits there open, maybe moving a tiny bit when I blip it.

Some videos and pictures here:

https://imgur.com/gallery/UZOtsud


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I do you have a test light?
With the engine, I would check the wire going to the choke housing and see if there is any power going there.

If there is then thatís good.

If if there is not then I would check to see if the 2 wire plug in the oil pressure SWITCH is connected. If it is then I would check the Backup fuse.

Withe engine off, hold the throttle open and see if the choke plate moves the whole distance. If it does not the I would look to see if there is something blocking it.
The only tension on it would be a counterweight on the side of the carb.
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post #9 of 13 Old 04-17-2021, 06:12 PM
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With the throttle actuated

Moving the black cap (viewed if you were behind it) CCW will move the bimetal spring and close it on up.

I find it best to do it with the engine stone cold---throttle actuated

Turn the cap until the plate lightly closes

Normally that's it!

Lets look at different "Cap" situations

Some have 3 little screws to be loosened before it will turn-----it will only need to turn a little

You might look at the index marks in case you have to put it back.

Scratch your own marks if need be.

Some caps have rivets and no screws--normally you can force a turn with your fingers

I have also gently moved it with channel lock pliers.

I hate automatic chokes---I buy the kits that turns them into a mechanical choke.

I want to be in charge of when it's on or off, it's also less likely to "stick" or bind when it's manual-------other folks have their own opinions too.

Here's some pics that may help you understand how they move and work.

1st PIC being what you have---taken out and now made manual-----the rest are manual, showing how the carb side gets twisted

Other factors that mess things up---Choke/ High idle steps adjusted wrong/ breather stud in too far.

-----JEEPFELLER
Attached Thumbnails
INSTALLING MANUAL CHOKE 009.jpg   INSTALLING MANUAL CHOKE 005.jpg   INSTALLING MANUAL CHOKE 006.jpg   INSTALLING MANUAL CHOKE 003.jpg   INSTALLING MANUAL CHOKE 002.jpg  

INSTALLING MANUAL CHOKE 010.jpg  
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post #10 of 13 Old 04-17-2021, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mudbfun View Post
I see you live in LA. I guess 45* actually is cold.



Just take your time and use a little trial and error to get it working for your climate. The trick is to get it to close just enough to fire up when it is cold.

Haha yep, in LA now but have spent some time in the Rockies as well. Sometimes I wish it were cold, but the jeep makes for a great sunny weather car

I just want to try and clarify that if I move the throttle when the engine is OFF, that the choke should still move. Iíve read in some threads that the procedural gas pedal pump before start up are supposed to set the choke, but mine just sits open.

The reason Iím trying to diagnose this in the first place is because on a ďcoldĒ start, the jeep will turn over, idle for a few seconds, and then sputter out. Usually on the second turnover it hangs on enough to idle and get warm.

The problem is that if I try to give it gas after the first turn over, it actually makes it die immediately. It feels like By hitting the throttle Iím killing the gas not giving it more. Once itís warm The throttle and engine work flawlessly.

Iím hoping that by understanding whatís going on in this sequence it will help me get a closer understanding of how to fix it. I appreciate all the responses here. My mind is slowly getting there!


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post #11 of 13 Old 04-17-2021, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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Choke plate wonít close on start up - manual is a bit confusing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
I do you have a test light?
With the engine, I would check the wire going to the choke housing and see if there is any power going there.

If there is then thatís good.

If if there is not then I would check to see if the 2 wire plug in the oil pressure SWITCH is connected. If it is then I would check the Backup fuse.

Withe engine off, hold the throttle open and see if the choke plate moves the whole distance. If it does not the I would look to see if there is something blocking it.
The only tension on it would be a counterweight on the side of the carb.

Thanks

I will check power next. Good call.

If you see in one of the videos in my link I show the extent of the choke movement.

Seems to be, ďnot muchĒ hehe

Video and pic link:
https://imgur.com/gallery/UZOtsud



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Last edited by sampsonrustic; 04-17-2021 at 07:47 PM.
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post #12 of 13 Old 04-18-2021, 06:55 AM
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I recently put a new rebuilt YF on our 74 and found the opposite problem. It wouldn't open. I just adjusted the choke spring so that it doesn't close. It is the time of the year when the weather is 40* in the early morning and can be 80+* in the afternoon. Tap the gas twice and it starts without hesitation whatever the temperature. I'll wait until colder weather to fine tune the choke.

If you really want to set it take it off and put in the freezer. Just do it when she's not home or use the beer fridge.
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post #13 of 13 Old 04-26-2021, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
sampsonrustic
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Wanted to thank everyone for their comments. I ended up getting the carb rebuilt (itís with a carb shop now that had a very reasonable rate for a complete rebuild with a 2 day turnaround)

Iím hoping that rebuilding the carb gets me closer to solving some other problems Iím having, including rough starting, rough idling, occasional throttle sticking, and dieseling on shut down.

Sometimes my personal diy efforts go well, sometimes I think Iím making it worse. This was one of those times and starting with SOMETHING that works properly I think will keep me going. Lord knows there will be more to fix...


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