Carter carb... - JeepForum.com
 5Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 Old 05-10-2019, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
Ks78cj
Registered User
 
Ks78cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 7
Carter carb...

Hi all,

Ive been having some issues with my carb. Had the jeep for a year and a half now and cant figure this friggin carb out.

During the winter i had a weber 32/36 put in and it ran great so i know that the engines working well. I couldn't get the weber to give as much power to the engine and i wanted that stock feel on the jeep so foolishly i switched it back again.

Anyway now ive been fighting with this carter to get working. In the morning it basically just sputters and dies constants. If i tap the needle and seat it will sometimes clear up slightly but still runs very rough. No matter where i put the choke on it still runs like garbage( i swear ive tried every choke position). Choke pulloff works fine and so does high idle. I recently did a rebuild on it and i think the settings for the carb are correct so im super lost as to what is going wrong. The internet gives many diffeent settings for the carbs. Its a 79 BDD btw on a 258. It idles fine once its warm except when i get off the highway or any sort of strain on the engine(uphills) it seems to want to die when i get to a stop. Almost like its slightly flooding out. But it holds idle its just really low. Im quite confused as to what it could be any help is appreciated.

Thanks guys!!

Ks78cj is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 05-10-2019, 03:01 PM
uptillnow
Web Wheeler
 
uptillnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fountain Valley
Posts: 1,099
I think most of us would agree that the Weber 32/36 DGEV is too small for the 6 cyl, 258 cid engine. (can get it to work, but too small) The Carter BBD, Weber 38 DGES, Motorcraft 2100/2150 are at least the same size and therefore the preferred size carburetor to use on a 6 cyl engine.

I have attached a few .pdf files of rebuilding instructions for specs on setting up your carburetor. Many of us have found that the idle tubes get clogged up, and using a 1/32" = 0.032" drill bit will unclog them.
Attached Images
 
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Carter BBD Instructions - print.pdf (362.9 KB, 9 views)
File Type: pdf carter2barrel.pdf (524.0 KB, 8 views)
File Type: pdf carterbbd.pdf (256.2 KB, 8 views)
uptillnow is offline  
post #3 of 16 Old 05-11-2019, 02:27 AM
keith460
Jeep. There's Only One
 
keith460's Avatar
1984 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Doylestown, PA
Posts: 7,966
Yep, what you describe sounds like the Idle Tubes are clogged and either need cleaned out or drilled out to 1/32" as uptillnow mentioned. Common problem with them for rough or low idle and cleaning or enlarging slightly is the cure. I did the same many times on my old BBD with the Stepper Motor Carter.
By the way, I to had the Weber 32/36 on my 258 and sure enough, its size was inadequate. Took it off and installed a NOS Carter BBD of 1980 model year and couldn't be more happier with its power and performance over the Weber 32/36. But, cleaning the carb about every two years is still required and is what I do to keep it functioning as designed. Today's ethanol laced fuel is not so friendly on these old carbs and routine maintenance is a must.

.
1984 CJ-7 Renegade
__________________
keith460 is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 Old 05-11-2019, 05:58 AM
OrangeCJ-5
Registered User
 
OrangeCJ-5's Avatar
1978 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Berkeley Springs
Posts: 1,545
I can get ethanol free gas in Virginia so that is what I use in the Jeep unless I canít avoid it.
OrangeCJ-5 is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 05-11-2019, 09:27 AM
sparkey
Member
1983 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: south east texas
Posts: 162
Wink BBD

As a testimonial for the Carter BBD, I have had no problems for over 10 years since I replaced the original stepper on my 83- 5. I put a filter ahead of the pump and with the one at the carb I have not touched it. I change the filters every year. So far so good. The jeep gets run to some extent 3 or 4 times a month. May not crank the next time.

Say what you think because those that matter don't mind and thoes that mind don't matter.
sparkey is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 05-11-2019, 07:22 PM
LumpyGrits
Registered User
1985 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Mojave Desert - Palmdale, Ca. U.S.A.
Posts: 7,037
Cj

Been run'n the stock Carter BBD since I bought my Jeep new in '85.
It's the ONLY carb approved for CA, SMOG testing for my Jeep.
It's a great carb once you learn the quirks.
See if this info helps........
http://gleebledorf.com/idle.html#Mix

CK your float level.
Be sure your fuel return line on the filter is at the 12 o'clock position.
Also-put a wrench to all of your manifold bolts/nuts to reduce the chance of vacuum leakage.
LG

Have'n you along, is like loose'n 2 good men
LumpyGrits is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 05-13-2019, 12:49 AM
BagusJeep
Web Wheeler
 
BagusJeep's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali
Posts: 6,615
I run some on BBD but bonus time I am always thinking Weber 38 DGMS.

As long as the throttle bushings are fine and no internal parts are broken, you can get them to run quite well on a BBD.

BagusJeep lives in Bali.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 05-13-2019, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
Ks78cj
Registered User
 
Ks78cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 7
Ugh.... forgot to change the vac advance back to manifold so it was flooding out and acting up whenever i gave it gas. Fixed that up and now its purring at idle.

Still working on the choke realized the pull-off was too soon so it was running lean and dying. Trying to figure that out still. Any tips on setting the choke proper? Im just setting it so it closes with some resistance for now and i guess ill see how it starts up in the morning.


Thanks all for the responses.
Ks78cj is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 05-13-2019, 08:52 PM
BagusJeep
Web Wheeler
 
BagusJeep's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali
Posts: 6,615
Vintage Jeephammer advice was:

"Here is some information you might need or want if you have a BBD and want the choke to work, or work better...

If you look at the DRIVERS SIDE of the choke blade linkage,
You will see as the choke gets pulled off, it moves the high idle cam out of the way of the high idle adjustment screw, and lets the CURB IDLE screw take over.

If you look at the OTHER end of the high idle cam, you will notice it's set by the accelerator pump linkage.
So you MUST pump the throttle to get 'High Choke Idle' to work.

The choke is nearly fully set here, notice the gap between CURB IDLE SCREW AND STOP?
(Not cold enough to have the choke/high idle completely on when these pictures were taken)
The 'High Idle' cam is holding the throttle open slightly, letting the choke blade control the air flow.

Once the choke pull off warms up and pulls the choke off, the high idle comes off with the choke, so there will be some 'Steps', the idle will decrease in steps as the choke pulls the High Idle Cam out of the way...
That's the point where the CURB IDLE screw takes over limiting the idle speed...



When you are BONE COLD, and the choke is FULLY ON,
The 'High Idle Cam' drops down FULLY, and the throttle is held open at it's fullest, along with locking the choke in place.

TO ACHIEVE THIS FULL CHOKE/HIGHEST IDLE, YOU NEED TO DEPRESS THE THROTTLE PEDAL BEFORE YOU TURN THE KEY 'ON'.
AS SOON AS THE KEY IS TURNED 'ON' OR THE ENGINE CRANKS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET TO THIS POINT ON THE HIGH IDLE CAM AGAIN UNTIL THE ENGINE COMPLETELY COOLS DOWN.

This gives you FULL CHOKE, and a lot of fuel, making your CURB IDLE as high as it should EVER be,
And keeping the choke from pulling off automatically.

This is a MECHANICAL CHOKE, you need to "Blip" the throttle to release this condition.

----------------------

With most Jeeps,
You should be able to FULLY DEPRESS the throttle pedal TWICE,
This will pump fuel into the intake to aid in cold starting.
This will also set the Mechanical High Idle and Choke at it's highest setting.

TAKE YOUR FOOT OFF THE THROTTLE!

Then crank the engine, LEAVING THE THROTTLE PEDAL ALONE!

Once the engine fires (And this has worked in the COLDEST weather I've seen, down to -35 F.)
The idle will edge up as the engine warms up, and the fuel start to atomize in a VERY COLD intake.
(If you have a working intake heater, that will help, but you will get by without one if you don't)

-------------------------------------

Once the engine starts to run, the idle will CREEP UP...

When the idle speed stabilizes, and it's hitting on all cylinders, BLIP THE THROTTLE,

[size=2THEN GET YOUR FOOT BACK OFF THE THROTTLE!
When the choke is set up correctly, you are doing more harm that good by trying to give the engine throttle...

*IF*...
You 'Blip' the throttle, and the idle doesn't come down some,
Then try it again...

If it still doesn't come down, then let it warm up a little more and try again...

*IF*... the idle drops when you 'Blip' the throttle,
NOW you are on the SECOND HIGH IDLE CAM STEP.
The choke is pulling off, and it's taking the High Idle cam with it in 'Steps'...

This is the part where the 'Automatic Choke Pull Off' starts working,
You will hear the engine start to take the choke off as it warms up.

KEEP YOUR FOOT OFF THE THROTTLE UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO DRIVE!

The 'Choke' idle will back down as you drive, the engine warms up and the choke pull off does it's job.
At some point, you will notice the idle going back to regular 'Curb Idle' when you stop for signs, lights, ect.[/size]

---------------------------------------------

COMMON MISTAKES...

Pumping while cranking.
This is the WORST thing you can do trying to get a cold engine to start!

All you are doing is dumping cold fuel that won't atomize and burn correctly, and you will probably get some 'Backfire' through the carb...
And you are keeping the correct high idle cam from engaging.

Pumping while cranking will keep the engine from staring/running correctly,
And it's hard as hell on the starter since the engine isn't going to want to start.

Remember, when the weather is below zero ( 0į F.),
The engine is requiring 4 times as much energy to turn it over,
While your battery is at about 10% of it's reserve current output!

Cranking excessively is the HARDEST THING YOU CAN DO TO YOUR STARTING SYSTEM/BATTERY WHEN IT'S COLD!

Pumping the throttle only makes the problems WORSE...


Having a screw missing.
As you can see from this picture, the High Idle screw/spring is new. Yup, the complaint turned out to be bad adjustment, missing screw and owner that pumped the crap out of the throttle.
The guy couldn't believe it would start right up and run without being attended when he got it back...
The dealership had raped him for around $700 for a new carb and missed the problem entirely.

You wouldn't believe how many missing limiter screws/springs I see missing when people complain about cold starting problems!


VACUUM LEAKS!
Vacuum leaks, no matter how small, TOTALLY SCREW UP THE CHOKE FUEL MIXTURE!
Find those vacuum leaks and FIX THEM!


NOT HAVING A WORKING CHOKE PULL OFF
That canister on the carb is NOT the choke, it's the choke PULL OFF.
When you turn the key 'ON', that choke starts to pull off, even if you haven't cranked the engine,
And once it gets power from the wiring harness, it takes a LONG TIME for it to go back to full choke.

INCORRECT ADJUSTMENT OF CHOKE LIMITING/HIGH IDLE SCREW
Play with it a little bit while it's cold, see how the high idle cam drops down into place when you open the throttle blades enough...
Adjust the screw so you get enough throttle opening your 'Curb Idle' screw isn't running the show when cold,
Then adjust from there until you get 'Easy' starts when it's completely cold."

BagusJeep lives in Bali.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 05-15-2019, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
Ks78cj
Registered User
 
Ks78cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 7
Thanks for that now the cold start is really great... newer problem jeep is spitting out the exaust for some reason? The carb seems set up properly but the idle mix screws are maxed all the way out to get a decent idle. Not sure why its spitting but its causing idle problems when its not fully warm because it dies out
Ks78cj is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 05-15-2019, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
Ks78cj
Registered User
 
Ks78cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 7
Its basically a miss in the engine... just pulled the spark plugs they all seem good along with i have a new dizzy and wires... so im assuming it must be carb just not sure why
Ks78cj is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 05-15-2019, 11:09 PM
BagusJeep
Web Wheeler
 
BagusJeep's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bali
Posts: 6,615
Sounds like a vacuum leak and a leaning out. If you cannot balance at around 1 1/2 turns out, suggests extra air is getting in. If spits on acceleration, may also be an accelerator pump not working

Have you checked the gaskets and all the hoses?

BagusJeep lives in Bali.

1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
BagusJeep is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 05-15-2019, 11:18 PM
turbogus
Registered User
1978 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Albany~town, Oregon
Posts: 2,378
Garage
My Jeep, 'Black Betty' runs an AFB and the 360 it's on once had the same issues the OP listed. Two things made the difference on mine.
1. Restore the tubing and route of the fuel lines
2. Went most of the way (save for the ignition box) on an MSD ignition upgrade.

BB since drives like a new Jeep.
turbogus is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 05-16-2019, 04:31 AM
John Strenk
Moderator
 
John Strenk's Avatar
1976 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Shalersville Ohio
Posts: 18,532
This service manual has been a big help for me:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Y7...vrefTjiQxMna23
pman, Fourtrail, uptillnow and 1 others like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
John Strenk is offline  
post #15 of 16 Old 05-16-2019, 11:22 AM
uptillnow
Web Wheeler
 
uptillnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Fountain Valley
Posts: 1,099
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
This service manual has been a big help for me:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Y7...vrefTjiQxMna23
John, this is a very good resource for the BBD. I've never seen this. Thank you.
UTN
uptillnow is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Jeep Forums Replies Last Post
WTB: Looking for 81-82ish Carter BBD Carb Johnyakimo1855 Drivetrain 0 05-06-2019 05:39 PM
1986 2.5l Carb conversion, Weber 32/36 to Carter FYA DesertNV Jeep CJ Forum 8 01-11-2019 02:14 PM
Need help with weber carb kit 1970pelle Jeep CJ Forum 18 12-18-2018 07:26 PM
BBD Carter carb nutter bypass zrickety YJ Wrangler Technical Forum 0 11-11-2018 07:27 PM
metering rods and stepper motor on carter bbd carb my1986cj7 Jeep CJ Forum 11 07-05-2018 01:19 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome