CA headers on AMC 360 - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 26 Old 07-09-2020, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
JVino
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CA headers on AMC 360

Hey ya'll, I'm looking for anyone who has, or had, an AMC motor in CA with the Howell EFI and put aftermarket headers on. Since Howell eliminates the need for the air pump, I do not need the stock manifolds but there are no CA compliant headers. Is this only because they do not make headers with the air ports? Do I need CA compliant headers if I have the Howell system on? Don't want to spend the money only to take it to the SMOG shop and them tell me they aren't CA compliant.

Just a little background, the 360 is in the machine shop and I am getting everything else prepped so when the motor gets done everything will be ready to put on. As far as I know I have to use the stock intake and exhaust manifold and I am going to get them powder coated and ceramic coated if I can't buy aftermarket to give better flow. Before doing that I want to make sure that is my only option. I have not found an aftermarket C.A.R.B. intake manifold or headers yet with pretty extensive research. I have, however, heard that the stock exhaust manifold does give just as good flow as aftermarket headers.

Thanks,

Jason


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post #2 of 26 Old 07-09-2020, 11:03 AM
LumpyGrits
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If it's not CARB compliant, and it must say such, you will fail the visual inspection.

Have'n you along, is like loose'n 2 good men
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post #3 of 26 Old 07-09-2020, 12:14 PM
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I am not sure it AMC ever made manifolds that did not have the air ports, but if you can find any old manifolds, you may get lucky and slip by with an old set of those. Headers run a red flag up the SMOG tech's flagpole and he or she is trained to look for the certification. An old manifold does not do this if there is not a need for an air pump. You can just plug the air pump holes with pipe plugs and run what you have. This may be the safest as the tech will have to go over a non stock engine and check everything and he will probably be consulting the installation guide. You want as few problems as possible.

I would make sure that the diagram from Howell supplies does not show the plugged ports or talk about them or that will probably cause you problems. A tech that knows about Jeeps may also catch non-California manifolds.
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post #4 of 26 Old 07-09-2020, 04:18 PM
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No way I would do headers.....you really wont gain anything unless you did a lot of work on the engine. The EFI alone makes a huge difference. Headers will also create clearance issues with the t-case.

I would just get some stock exhaust manifolds that look stock...center dump is best.....leaves you more room for the exhaust.
I'm running a 5.7L TBI with Ram Head exhaust manifolds. The stock rear outlet would not have fit.


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post #5 of 26 Old 07-09-2020, 04:18 PM
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By the way....what part of Cali? I've been through the Ref process....pretty easy if you don't try to pull any fast ones.


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post #6 of 26 Old 07-10-2020, 07:30 AM
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The year of your Jeep may have relevance in smog requirements. While your Jeep is required to meet build requirements at time of manufacture, there is a certain year that vehicles which were built prior to are exempt from having to comply with manufacture smog requirements. Same goes for year of the motor installed in the vehicle. I forget the year limit of manufacture that they require currently. What is the year of your Jeep and year of your engine?

I do know that back in 1985 I installed a 1965 engine into a 1975 vehicle and went to the referee station that allowed me to register the vehicle in California due to the motor being 20 years old and therefore exempt.

I say that you install stock like exhaust manifolds - there are aftermarket manifolds available without air holes drilled. I doubt very much that any smog station will know if the vehicle came with air tubes or not.

1972 CJ5 304 V8, 3 speed manual trans
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post #7 of 26 Old 07-10-2020, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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I am in Fresno, Cali. My Jeep is a '78 and the 360 is from an '84 Grand Wagoneer. It sounds like I am sticking with the stock manifolds. I have the stock ones from the 360 that I will just have cleaned up and ceramic coated. Plug the air ports and make them look somewhat presentable. I just thought that since Howell eliminates the air pump I don't need the air ports anymore which is the whole reason for the stock manifolds essentially opening the door to any headers. It isn't a huge deal, I just like the look and hoping for a little extra torque. The motor has been rolled with a COMP cams cam, all COMP cams valves, springs etc to match the cam. Nothing huge. The year is 1975 that you are smog exempt so I'm 3 years too late to the party! I am hoping to not have to go to the ref. My Jeep is due for smog in Oct and I'm hoping to have the motor done by then and call it a rebuild...(crossing fingers) My smog guy is pretty cool.

Speaking of the exhaust though, I want to get a new Y pipe and muffler back. Everywhere I looked It only shows for manual transmissions. I have a TH400 3-speed auto. Anyone have a link? Also, anyone have experience with Borla exhaust on these year Jeeps? I want something quiet but refined and Flowmaster just doesn't knock my socks off....

Thanks all,

Jason

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post #8 of 26 Old 07-10-2020, 10:28 AM
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What size/type of motor did your Jeep have in when it was manufactured?

Any motor change will require a trip the referee station. When a smog tech scans your paper it is going to tell him that you should have a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder motor. If you originally should have a 6 and now you have an 8, the inspection will stop there and you will fail. The smog tech can only SMOG the vehicle legally for the motor that is listed on the paperwork. My CJ7 has a BAR sticker that say that the motor is a 1988 5.0 Mustang. They scan the bar code on the sticker and they SMOG it as a 1988 Mustang.

Current rules state that the motor swap needs to be out of a vehicle the same year as the receiving vehicle or out of a newer vehicle. You can not put an old motor (older by year than the receiving vehicle) in a newer vehicle. There are also requirements that the same type of motor had to come in the type of vehicle you are putting it in. You cannot put a heavy truck motor in a CJ7 which is considered a 1/4 ton vehicle.

One more idea...you could...not saying that you should... send the vehicle thought the referee with the stock manifolds with the holes plugged. You could later switch it out to a set of stock manifolds that do not have the ports on them. With the BAR sticker, the stock non air ported manifolds will probably pass inspection thereafter. You could also talk to the referee ahead of time and see if he will allow a set of non air ported manifolds and if he/she approves, you could start with them. There is actually less chance of a leak with the non air ported manifolds. The referee has a lot of latitude. Before you spend money on having the manifolds coated, it would be good to find out.

In the end you will probably end up with a BAR sticker that tells the SMOG tech to SMOG your CJ7 as a '84 Grand Wagoneer with a 360 engine. You will be required to have asll the emission equipment used on the original '84 Grand Wagoneer less that the Howell kit lets you legally remove.
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post #9 of 26 Old 07-10-2020, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneTower View Post
What size/type of motor did your Jeep have in when it was manufactured?

Any motor change will require a trip the referee station. When a smog tech scans your paper it is going to tell him that you should have a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder motor. If you originally should have a 6 and now you have an 8, the inspection will stop there and you will fail. The smog tech can only SMOG the vehicle legally for the motor that is listed on the paperwork. My CJ7 has a BAR sticker that say that the motor is a 1988 5.0 Mustang. They scan the bar code on the sticker and they SMOG it as a 1988 Mustang.

Current rules state that the motor swap needs to be out of a vehicle the same year as the receiving vehicle or out of a newer vehicle. You can not put an old motor (older by year than the receiving vehicle) in a newer vehicle. There are also requirements that the same type of motor had to come in the type of vehicle you are putting it in. You cannot put a heavy truck motor in a CJ7 which is considered a 1/4 ton vehicle.
This is correct, as when I moved 18 mo. ago. it also depends on what area you are in. inspection varies by area. LA was harder than say Bishop.

I will add, anything modified before (upstream of) the CAT has to have a CARB sticker or it will not pass inspection.

Vehicles built before 1975 are not inspected, that does no say they are exempt from smog requirements, it just means they don't get inspected, so if they're modified they are in violation of federal law.

Whats over that next ridge?
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post #10 of 26 Old 07-10-2020, 04:09 PM
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Usually air filter and intake tube can be modified on pre obd II vehicles (in front of the mass air sensor (if so equipped).

I think any county that require a SMOG is going to catch a 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder to an 8 cylinder swap with a Howell conversion. Some counties only require you to have your vehicle SMOGGED when you buy or sell in the county. If you have the wrong engine, you are going to be SOL if you have to go through the inspection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Low2G0 View Post
This is correct, as when I moved 18 mo. ago. it also depends on what area you are in. inspection varies by area. LA was harder than say Bishop.

I will add, anything modified before (upstream of) the CAT has to have a CARB sticker or it will not pass inspection.

Vehicles built before 1975 are not inspected, that does no say they are exempt from smog requirements, it just means they don't get inspected, so if they're modified they are in violation of federal law.
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post #11 of 26 Old 07-10-2020, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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I had a 304 in the CJ prior to the swap. The few things I have going for me is the blocks are the same and therefore the manifolds look identical, as does the intake manifold. Also, since the 304, 360 and 401 blocks are the same, Howell's EFI kits are for 304, 360, or 401. The don't specify anywhere on the throttle body and it is a OBD II so the SMOG techs don't scan those.

Other than the block change, there really isn't anything I'm trying to get past smog certs. My cat is CARB compliant and besides the block's internals, everything else is compliant. I do wish there was a compliant intake manifold....

Jason
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post #12 of 26 Old 07-10-2020, 09:00 PM
StoneTower
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Having a 304 in the CJ7 is really good so that you do not have to go through the motor swap approval procedure. You should be able to install the Howell and take it to any SMOG shop.

After you get it through the first time, you may be able to grind off the name on an a aftermarket intake manifold and paint it the same color as your block and it will probably make it through next time. We used to do this with Performer intakes on SBC motors.
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post #13 of 26 Old 07-10-2020, 09:32 PM
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On your muffler question....I have what the muffler guys calls a generic 'turbo' muffler. It's a low restriction muffler...give my SBC a nice quiet but serious sound. I'm quite happy with it.

Headers and Torque? Headers will do nothing for torque. In fact, the headers won't really start helping until you get up into the 3000+ RPM range.

Comp cam? I personally think you wasted your money there. It's a jeep. Depending on the lift and duration, it may create more problems than is solves.

On a more positive note....once you get it all together and the bugs worked out....you need to grab a few other jeep friends and go do the Dusy....it has got to be one of the best off road trails you can do. It's about a 2.5 day trek....

I want to do it again soon.


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post #14 of 26 Old 07-10-2020, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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Awesome idea on the Performer idea...noticeable power gain for the money and effort to do the swap?

Kick in the you know what with the COMP cams feedback. My engine guy swears by them. He did convince me to only go to a 206/206 to not worry about passing the tail pipe test. #hatecalifornia. If it were any more than that, he was skeptical and I didn't want to risk it....

On the "Turbo" muffler...is that the name brand to look up or is there a more specific brand name I can put through the search engine?

Thanks all!

Jason
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post #15 of 26 Old 07-10-2020, 10:25 PM
LumpyGrits
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Stop guessing and get to a referee station.
They will give you a printout of what you must do to pass.

Have'n you along, is like loose'n 2 good men
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