Brake booster interference with Clifford dual Weber setup - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 24 Old 04-30-2021, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
gwistrup
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Brake booster interference with Clifford dual Weber setup

I have a 1983 CJ7 with a 4.2 six cylinder engine that I have done some modifications to and I am seeking some help with the finishing touches to complete the job. The modifications include: Clifford dual Weber intake and carb setup, Clifford 6 into 2 header, Iskendarian 270 camshaft, .060" milled off the cylinder head. The rest of the engine is freshly rebuilt but stock. I put the body back on the frame last week and I found that the brake booster will not clear the rear carburetor. The booster has a bracket that spaces it out from the fire wall about 3". I have read through some previous threads that the bracket is used to help the booster clear the hood when it is closed and it also has a linkage to multiply the effort from the brake pedal. What is the solution to this problem? Is there another brake booster that I can use and eliminate the spacer bracket? Thank you in advance for your help, Gil

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post #2 of 24 Old 04-30-2021, 06:18 PM
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The bracket aligns the thrust on the booster from the pedal, dead straight.

I had a CJ with the booster attached direct to the firewall, it worked but the brakes were better after I put the bracket in because I was not putting stress on the nose of the booster. It would lock up its brakes so it was not like it was compromised on brake ability.

What diameter booster do you have? would it help to put a smaller diameter but longer booster on?

There are remote boosters if you are really stuck. they are a bit more pricey as they are a custom option.

If you want to make your life more difficult, look at hydroboost. A lot more stopping power at the pedal

Pictures please!!!

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
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post #3 of 24 Old 05-01-2021, 04:22 AM
John Strenk
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If it's just the booster causing problems and not the Master cylinder location, you can go with a dual booster that is much smaller in diameter.



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post #4 of 24 Old 05-02-2021, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
gwistrup
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gwistrup

I have attached some pictures (sorry that the one one the bottom needs to be rotated 90 degrees) and I will do my best to describe the situation. I have a 9" booster on the Jeep. The rear carb is 6" from the fire wall and the fuel inlet (this part sticks out the most) is 8" from the fire wall. If you eye down both carbs to the center of the hole in the fire wall for the brake booster, the fuel inlet is about 2 1/2" from the center of the booster hole. Therefore, if you had a 5" diameter booster, it would just clear the rear carb. If you were to install the master cylinder without the booster, it will clear the fuel inlet by about 3/4". If you remove the bracket behind the booster, the booster and master cylinder will fit. Am I correct to assume that if I were to install a 9" brake booster without the bracket assembly, the hood will not close? There are a zillion aftermarket boosters out there. There has to be one that will work. I don't think that the smaller diameter booster that you showed in your reply would clear the rear carb unless you took the bracket off. I have a Porsche 944 that I put a 5.3 LS engine in it and I used hydro boost to clear the passenger valve cover. I would prefer to use a vacuum booster if I can. Thank you. Gil
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post #5 of 24 Old 05-02-2021, 05:44 PM
Shawn Watson
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Can't wait to see how this thing runs


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post #6 of 24 Old 05-03-2021, 01:12 PM
uptillnow
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Hey Shawn, long time... Hope you are continuing to be well.

What does Clifford say about this. They sell many of these and must have had this come up more than once.
Larry should have some suggestions as well.

UTN
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post #7 of 24 Old 05-03-2021, 07:16 PM
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Looks difficult but as far as I recall my brake booster, when bolted direct to the firewall, was not conflicting with the hood. it is a RHD but the brake mounting hole locations are mirrored.

It came that way, the first change i made was to remove the Toyota master cylinder and put on the correct master.

I ran it like that for some years but the rod from the pedal cracked the snout as it was not pushing directly into the booster, on a slight angle. It ran like that for a long time. I like everything more or less stock, as I trust AMC put it in for a reason, so I fitted the right bracket. The snout I cheated and glued it back up as it was not integral to the operation.

As it stands now it has the correct master cylinder and booster assembly, combination valve and hard lines and flexible hoses and is correctly set up so it is flawless in braking. the greatest improvement came from getting the clearance between booster and master cylinder correct.

Would I try the booster bolted direct? I guess I would look pretty hard at the rod coming from the pedal and whether it would catch the outside of the snout. If it did, could I grind it back a bit to get clearance.

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #8 of 24 Old 05-08-2021, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
gwistrup
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I called Larry at Clifford first before inquiring on this forum. He mentioned a smaller booster such as one off of a 1950's Corvette but I was surprised that he couldn't really give me a specific list of parts to adapt the brakes to fit. I found a universal dual diaphragm booster that is smaller in diameter that I think I can bolt directly to the firewall. I am going to call the vendor to get the details to make sure it will work. On the bright side, I got the engine running the other day and it sounds really healthy. The carbs seemed spot on. It ran clean, good throttle response, Idled well, no vacuum at the port on the side of the carbs. I didn't even have to turn any of the mixture screws. Once I can get it to stop, I can take it for the true test. It was pretty lame in stock form.
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post #9 of 24 Old 05-08-2021, 05:39 PM
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Take a look at my set up...smaller, double diaphragm booster, same funky pivot brackets, and a Weber 38

BUT

I mounted my Weber 180 degrees from the way you did. No clearance problems at all.


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2005 TJ also gone
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post #10 of 24 Old 05-10-2021, 07:47 AM Thread Starter
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Could you please show some pictures on how you hooked up the throttle linkage? Also could you measure from the center of the carb to the center of the valve cover? I'm curious how wide your intake manifold is compared to mine. Thank you. Gil
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post #11 of 24 Old 05-10-2021, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwistrup View Post
Could you please show some pictures on how you hooked up the throttle linkage? Also could you measure from the center of the carb to the center of the valve cover? I'm curious how wide your intake manifold is compared to mine. Thank you. Gil
I assume you're asking me...
Here you go, pics taken moments ago
I would call center of valve cover to carb center about 8-1/2"
Throttle cable comes in from bottom of bracket, bracket mounted to side of carb adapter, Clifford intake







1977 CJ5 is a CJ build ever really done?
2002 TJ gone
2005 TJ also gone
2005 LJ insurance wreck
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post #12 of 24 Old 05-10-2021, 08:04 PM
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As I understand, the big hurdle is finding a way to attach/coordinate the synchronous throttle linkages on the dual Webers with the OP's power brake set up without interference with the booster. The aft carb is positioned on the #5 cylinder intake, which interferes with the booster. Turning it 90* complicates joining the throttle linkage between the two 38's. Would think [email protected] would have run into this before. Cool setup, hope to see it running-

Hoov

82 CJ7 Laredo Ltd, 258, T5, frame off resto/rebuild planned
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84 CJ7 Renegade, 258, T5, Weber 38, Cliffordized, Borla headers
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post #13 of 24 Old 05-11-2021, 08:26 AM
stripperguy
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Whoa!! I completely missed the fact that you have a dual Weber set up
The 180 flip might still help though

Send pictures of your current linkage.

1977 CJ5 is a CJ build ever really done?
2002 TJ gone
2005 TJ also gone
2005 LJ insurance wreck
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post #14 of 24 Old 05-11-2021, 10:02 AM
John Strenk
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If there is room. I'd also go with turning them 180*

There was this note on Cliffords web site:
Quote:
NOTE: You MIGHT have to purchase an 8 inch Power Brake Booster. We have added spacers to raise the carbs for clearance.


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post #15 of 24 Old 05-11-2021, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
gwistrup
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Thanks for the pictures. Turning the carbs 180 degrees might work and I can see that the throttle hookup is kind of like it was connected from the factory with the cable coming up from underneath. It looks like you would gain about 1.5" clearance with the carbs orientated the other way. The intake and carbs came assembled as shown. I just installed the intake and header as they came out of the box. I read Larry's note about the 8" booster and carb spacers before I purchased the system. An 8" booster is still too large and you would have to cut a hole in the hood to space the rear carb high enough to clear the stock booster. I wonder if the note pertains to a different make vehicle. I will put up some pictures when I get back out to the garage. Thanks again, Gil
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