Borgeson Steering shaft upgrade - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 41 Old 03-15-2011, 08:30 AM Thread Starter
h2ojeep
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Borgeson Steering shaft upgrade

If this question sounds like I am irritated, Iam. My apology (play a sad song).

My Borgeson Steering Shaft came in yesterday. I am not happy with the install process. There is no doubt that the quality and integrity of the shaft is superior. I think they could have done a better job matching it with the existing shafts, especially when you consider the cost of the Borgeson.


The directions specifically say NOT to use the existing flats (actually more like a saddle). Directions call for locking the steering wheel at the column inside (not functional on my jeep), remove the old shaft. Slide the new u joint over the upper shaft, tighten the set screw to make a mark on the upper shaft, then remove and then file a flat based on that mark. Repeat that process on the lower shaft.

I DO NOT WANT TO FILE A FLAT ON MY SHAFT especially when I already have one. I also note (when I did my research) that “jeeptech.com” explanation indicates to use the existing flats, a contradiction to Borgeson’s directions explanation. http://www.jeeptech.com/steer/borgesoncj/

The OEM lower shaft has inferior u joint, but the quality of the connection to the upper shaft at the top and the other at the gear box are very good.
I want to keep my steering “square” to my wheels. The OEM shaft does that. I don’t think the Borgeson install does that.


Question to those of you who have installed the Borgeson shaft, which is the best install: Borgeson’s? or Jeep tech? Or should I do a repair kit with the OEM and send the Borgeson back?

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post #2 of 41 Old 03-15-2011, 09:13 AM
83CJ7AMC
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...

I just installed the Borgeson shaft.
My 83 locks.
Maybe you could use straps to hold yours straight.
I did NOT use the existing slots, they are too large
and are too deep.
A dremel tool will be your best friend here. I stacked
on 3 or 4 cutting discs and ground a little at a time until
I got a tight width and not too deep.
The lower end I did first on the steering sector box, with the
new notch location facing down, that's the only way to get at it.
After securing it on the lower end, connect/slide it to the top end and rotate
the steering wheel enough to expose the new location that best fits
a position that you can work with, grinding the new slot.
Grind and fit using the set screw as your guide. Take your time, the tighter
the fit the better it will remain "tight" and have zero movement...

Even if your old slot is near the bottom "new slot position", rotate the front wheels, mark location
using the set screw, slowly grind to fit, connect the lower end and upper,
straighten the wheels, disconnect the top,
line the steering wheel up straight, slide the shaft back on and mark it...
Remember you will have the adjustment of the shorter tie rod to adjust the steering wheel to get it
back "straight".

I chose to remove the zip tie on the small rubber boot where the 2 double D shafts come together
to better loosen that set screw, slid the boot out of the way and later slid back into new position
and used a new black zip tie after setting that screw down snug.

I suggest using the 222 Locktite, as Borgeson does as well.

I replaced most of my old rubber bushings with the Polyurethane stuff.
The vibration version of the Borgeson shaft is merely nothing more than rubber, placed against the
u-joint.
I used the 2 old pieces from the sway bars, cut them then slid onto the shaft against the u-joint
and used large black zip ties, 2 for each one. I used one old shackle bushing on the lower end against the u-joint and one zip tie.
I drove the Jeep before adding the rubber bushings and they WORK! It reduced the vibration allot
to my surprise.


JP
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post #3 of 41 Old 03-15-2011, 12:20 PM
GPER
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I put mine on about 10 years agoand no problems.
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post #4 of 41 Old 03-15-2011, 01:00 PM
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Directions????

'81 Scrambler w/ FI 360 AMC, 33x12.50 BFG M/T's, 5" of lift, ARB'd Dana 44's F & R, Dana 300 clocked & twin sticked w/4:1, Warn XD9000i, etc...
2002 Grand Cherokee Limited, 2008 Overland Grand Cherokee, a 1976 CJ-7 in pieces and 3 more off-brand 4x4s...............
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post #5 of 41 Old 03-15-2011, 04:33 PM
Redmanchew
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I put mine on about 4 years ago (one of the first upgrades) and have not had a problem with it. Don't remember anything about not using the exisiting flats. dunno.......worse problem i had was installing the top end and trying to extend the shaft down to the box in the jeep. Eventually took it off and streached it out then reinstalled it.

the only thing i wish i had done was paint mine because it looks like hell now, operates perfectly just looks bad.

Center everything up and let her fly..

1982 CJ-7 2003 4.3 chevy vortec, 4L60E, Clocked Dana 300 35 x 12.5 x 15 KM2 on Cragar 399's. Vanco Brake Booster. Power steering conversion. Warn front and rear bumpers with swing away. Moser 1 piece rears. Rear OX.

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To reiterate for the 1,067th time, when towing...
remove rear axle, xfer in N, trans in 5th, remove neg batt cable, key to Run and go??
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post #6 of 41 Old 03-15-2011, 05:35 PM
rdsk8ter
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i got mine pulled the old (pain in the ars) and installed the new no problems at all my steering lock is broke i just had the wife hold it worked like a charm
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post #7 of 41 Old 03-17-2011, 03:20 PM
83CJ7AMC
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old instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by h2ojeep View Post
If this question sounds like I am irritated, Iam. My apology (play a sad song).

My Borgeson Steering Shaft came in yesterday. I am not happy with the install process. There is no doubt that the quality and integrity of the shaft is superior. I think they could have done a better job matching it with the existing shafts, especially when you consider the cost of the Borgeson.


The directions specifically say NOT to use the existing flats (actually more like a saddle). Directions call for locking the steering wheel at the column inside (not functional on my jeep), remove the old shaft. Slide the new u joint over the upper shaft, tighten the set screw to make a mark on the upper shaft, then remove and then file a flat based on that mark. Repeat that process on the lower shaft.

I DO NOT WANT TO FILE A FLAT ON MY SHAFT especially when I already have one. I also note (when I did my research) that “jeeptech.com” explanation indicates to use the existing flats, a contradiction to Borgeson’s directions explanation. http://www.jeeptech.com/steer/borgesoncj/

The OEM lower shaft has inferior u joint, but the quality of the connection to the upper shaft at the top and the other at the gear box are very good.
I want to keep my steering “square” to my wheels. The OEM shaft does that. I don’t think the Borgeson install does that.


Question to those of you who have installed the Borgeson shaft, which is the best install: Borgeson’s? or Jeep tech? Or should I do a repair kit with the OEM and send the Borgeson back?
OK, so I went to the link you provided and the instructions look to be old, right? Maybe Borgeson had better results using a "new" "ground to fit" location
for thier shafts... I know I feel more comfortable grinding mine to fit and like I said, the Dremel tool is going to do the best job here.
SAY, where did you go??? You get started, you get sent out of town?

JP
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post #8 of 41 Old 03-17-2011, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
h2ojeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83CJ7AMC View Post
OK, so I went to the link you provided and the instructions look to be old, right? Maybe Borgeson had better results using a "new" "ground to fit" location
for thier shafts... I know I feel more comfortable grinding mine to fit and like I said, the Dremel tool is going to do the best job here.
SAY, where did you go??? You get started, you get sent out of town?

JP
thanks for checking up.
I think Borgeson relies on visual feed back to index the steering wheel to the front axle. The OEM has a more reliable indexing.

My jeep needed a trip to the wheel alignment machine before I had the break down, so I am concerned if I put the Borgeson in and then get the alignment service, things will be out of sinc. (also, I cant lock my steering wheel as Borgeson explains)

The other considering factor is price. I assumed that Borgeson had a specific indexing technique, that's why I though it would be good money spent. For what it cost, it will almost purchase a balanced rear drive shaft with a CV joint. I am returning the Borgeson.

This is really all I need http://www.jeep4x4center.com/product...umber=8121299K
Not nearly the quality, but it indexes perfectly.

And I agree with you, notching for the Borgeson is a must if I were to keep it.

Before the borgeson came in, I had to do a semi permanent repair to the steering on the jeep because, while returning from my jeep trip,my tow vehicle transmission went out. I was with two vehicles down and I could do a quick repair on the jeep that was better than we had done in the river bed. The way the jeep steering is now, it is not to par, but I could drive safely a long time. So I have been pre occupied with getting my DD/tow vehicle going (and also considering/looking at 3/4 ton tow vehicle)

Your post is very good, very much appreciated. The dremel tool and stacking the cutoff wheels is an excellent idea and I would have gone that way if I were keeping the Borgeson. Thank You.

Dif
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post #9 of 41 Old 03-18-2011, 07:37 AM
83CJ7AMC
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...

Quote:
Originally Posted by h2ojeep View Post
thanks for checking up.
I think Borgeson relies on visual feed back to index the steering wheel to the front axle. The OEM has a more reliable indexing.

My jeep needed a trip to the wheel alignment machine before I had the break down, so I am concerned if I put the Borgeson in and then get the alignment service, things will be out of sinc. (also, I cant lock my steering wheel as Borgeson explains)

The other considering factor is price. I assumed that Borgeson had a specific indexing technique, that's why I though it would be good money spent. For what it cost, it will almost purchase a balanced rear drive shaft with a CV joint. I am returning the Borgeson.

This is really all I need http://www.jeep4x4center.com/product...umber=8121299K
Not nearly the quality, but it indexes perfectly.

And I agree with you, notching for the Borgeson is a must if I were to keep it.

Before the borgeson came in, I had to do a semi permanent repair to the steering on the jeep because, while returning from my jeep trip,my tow vehicle transmission went out. I was with two vehicles down and I could do a quick repair on the jeep that was better than we had done in the river bed. The way the jeep steering is now, it is not to par, but I could drive safely a long time. So I have been pre occupied with getting my DD/tow vehicle going (and also considering/looking at 3/4 ton tow vehicle)

Your post is very good, very much appreciated. The dremel tool and stacking the cutoff wheels is an excellent idea and I would have gone that way if I were keeping the Borgeson. Thank You.

Dif
Understand your position and thank you for thanking me!
I shudder when I see the OEM standard quality shafts. It's a sheet metal box
end with 2 steel square nuts they call bearings! Destined for play in the near future! Trust me, it only took a very small amount of play in this sheet metal box/boot you are getting and it shows up on the steering wheel as 4 inches of play.
It's much harder linning up the OEM "cross bolts" on the end shafts than that of
the smaller set screws of the Borgeson. I suppose one could be off by a single spline and work for both but you'll still find your self adjusting the "short" tie rod to get your steering wheel straight, which is very easy and doesn't mess with any alignment, that's the long arm...

Best regards,

JP
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post #10 of 41 Old 03-24-2011, 06:41 AM
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Forgive me for being a Jeep rookie, but I am about to order the Borgesan and now I am just worried after reading all this. When I took my factory shaft off it seemed like it was just a squeeze clamp on each and and off it came. (of course it was not that easy since it was so old). But is installing the new one not as simple as sliding the new one into place and tightening the set screw or clamp? I guess I am just not following what everyone is talk about grinding?


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post #11 of 41 Old 03-24-2011, 07:37 AM
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The set screws on a Borgeson shaft are not there to index the shaft. The splines are for indexing, the set screws keep the shaft from getting pulled off If your body and frame get that twisted offroad.
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post #12 of 41 Old 03-24-2011, 07:47 AM
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I understand that part. So is all the grinding discussed only to add a "dish" for the set screw to set in?


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post #13 of 41 Old 03-24-2011, 08:02 AM
83CJ7AMC
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Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by FATHERNSON View Post
I understand that part. So is all the grinding discussed only to add a "dish" for the set screw to set in?
Correct.
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post #14 of 41 Old 03-24-2011, 08:11 AM
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Thanks, one last question if I could. If the vibration damping version of the Borgeson shaft worth it?


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post #15 of 41 Old 03-24-2011, 08:18 AM
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That is the one I put in, I thought it was
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