Bmann412's AMC 304 Rebuild - Page 7 - JeepForum.com
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post #91 of 262 Old 03-25-2020, 12:03 PM
Axhammer
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Use the dial indicator to find TDC. At TDC the piston is either below, even or above the deck. You can use a straight edge and a feeler gauge to measure the dimension. If you look at my picture, my piston is sticking out of the hole about .005”, which is where I want it for a tight quench. With a .040” head gasket, my piston will be about .035” from the cylinder head at TDC.

To check the balancer, install the balancer & timing chain cover. Find TDC of #1 using your dial indicator. At this point the balancer should be aligned with “0” degrees timing.

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post #92 of 262 Old 03-27-2020, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
Bmann412
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Made some good progress on the motor today. First I found top dead center using a piston stop and cam degree wheel. With top dead center found I setup my dial indicator on one of the lifters and verified that the cam matches the cam card.

Results:
Intake on cam card: 109
Intake as measured: 109.5

Exhaust on cam card: 112
Exhaust as measured: 112.5









With the camshaft’s position verified I put the engine back at top dead center and loosely installed the timing cover and loosely installed the harmonic balancer. It lined up with the TDC mark on the timing cover. I also measured the distance between the deck and the piston face. The piston sits .035 from the deck so I shouldn’t have any issues with piston to valve clearance.





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post #93 of 262 Old 03-27-2020, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
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Also picked up some play dough to measure the oil pickup to pan clearance. With no gasket installed It came out to be a little over 3/8” so I might back it up a bit the service manual says between 1/4” and 3/8”




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post #94 of 262 Old 03-27-2020, 05:32 PM
oldschool74cj5
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Bmann

im glad that the plado trick worked for you. when i use to build engines that is one of the tricks we used to get a accurate height. used to do more with old mopars but a engine is a engine.

AxHammer
question in that pic is a build of a stroker. i saw the dished out pistons and was wondering if so what compression did you end up with? the only reason i was asking is im thinking of building a carbed stroker for my cj7. unfor i do love inline 6 tractor motors.

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post #95 of 262 Old 03-27-2020, 06:03 PM
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Are you considering purchasing a new harmonic balancer? I've seen worse.

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post #96 of 262 Old 03-27-2020, 06:08 PM
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Nice job, Bmann


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post #97 of 262 Old 03-27-2020, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
Bmann412
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Originally Posted by Hurricane4 View Post
Are you considering purchasing a new harmonic balancer? I've seen worse.

Wasn’t sure was hoping to get some opinions. I am not seeing a lot of options for the 304. So far the damper doctor seems to be the most cost effective option.

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Bmann



im glad that the plado trick worked for you. when i use to build engines that is one of the tricks we used to get a accurate height. used to do more with old mopars but a engine is a engine.



oldschool

Thanks again, I wouldn’t have known how about to check the clearance other wise. Would you leave the pick up where it is or move it up a little bit?

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post #98 of 262 Old 03-27-2020, 07:19 PM
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unfortunately i am a perfectionist when it comes to mechanical things. i would really have to look at it all. depending how large the pan bottom is it would leave about a 1/2-3/4 quart of oil that would be below the pickup. i think it hold about 6qts when full. that is a good amount of oil to displace to uncover the pickup. if i remember the oil pick up is threaded into the block? so to me that means there really only two ways to close the gap between the pan and pickup. one way that isnt a good thing is have it not threaded into the block as far. a possible problem there would be sucking air into the oil system. speak of threaded fitting hopefully you put something on the i the only other way i can think about is tweeking the tube some to get it to sit closer to the pan. depending on how thick the tube is i would look at that option if i would try to get tighter clearance.
as for a harmonic balancer i would get a new one just because you have that much work into a new motor. you wouldnt want a problem with a new motor because of a old so so part. rock auto has some for the 304 engine if you look at 79 and older cj's

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post #99 of 262 Old 03-27-2020, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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Bmann412's AMC 304 Rebuild

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Originally Posted by oldschool74cj5 View Post
Bmann

unfortunately i am a perfectionist when it comes to mechanical things. i would really have to look at it all. depending how large the pan bottom is it would leave about a 1/2-3/4 quart of oil that would be below the pickup. i think it hold about 6qts when full. that is a good amount of oil to displace to uncover the pickup. if i remember the oil pick up is threaded into the block? so to me that means there really only two ways to close the gap between the pan and pickup. one way that isnt a good thing is have it not threaded into the block as far. a possible problem there would be sucking air into the oil system. speak of threaded fitting hopefully you put something on the i the only other way i can think about is tweeking the tube some to get it to sit closer to the pan. depending on how thick the tube is i would look at that option if i would try to get tighter clearance.
as for a harmonic balancer i would get a new one just because you have that much work into a new motor. you wouldnt want a problem with a new motor because of a old so so part. rock auto has some for the 304 engine if you look at 79 and older cj's

oldchool

Nothing wrong with being a perfectionist. So if I am understanding this correctly there is really only one way the pickup tube can be installed since it is threaded on. Comparing the new pick up to the original and the bends appear to be in same spots so I wouldn’t like to try and bend it unless it’s necessary. I agree that it would take a lot to displace the that much oil to starve the pickup. The way I see it there is no real need to change the distance between the pan and pickup unless someone else see’s something wrong with the current location.

As for the harmonic balancer I agree it wouldn’t be wise to use old parts when I have put this much time and money into a fresh motor.

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post #100 of 262 Old 03-28-2020, 08:35 AM
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Looks good Bmann. 9 out of 10 cams will be dead on or very close when installed dot to dot, but eventually you will get one that is off when installed dot to dot. That’s when degreeing the cam pays off, because you make adjustments to get it right one way or the other. My current race engine has a 2 degree offset key from Mopar. That Mopar offset keyway set was hanging on my wall for over ten years, and then one day I used one of the keys to get my cam timed correctly. That day convinced me to always put the degree wheel on and verify it.

I forget what the target CR is on my 4.7 build. I called Russ Pottenger, and bought the parts from him to run 87 octane gasoline. It’s a little higher than you would guess, but the .035” quench makes it possible. I’ll call Russ and find out, and post it. I’d like to get it in a thread that might help someone else putting the parts together for the stroked I-6 engine.

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post #101 of 262 Old 03-28-2020, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axhammer View Post
Looks good Bmann. 9 out of 10 cams will be dead on or very close when installed dot to dot, but eventually you will get one that is off when installed dot to dot. That’s when degreeing the cam pays off, because you make adjustments to get it right one way or the other. My current race engine has a 2 degree offset key from Mopar. That Mopar offset keyway set was hanging on my wall for over ten years, and then one day I used one of the keys to get my cam timed correctly. That day convinced me to always put the degree wheel on and verify it.

I forget what the target CR is on my 4.7 build. I called Russ Pottenger, and bought the parts from him to run 87 octane gasoline. It’s a little higher than you would guess, but the .035” quench makes it possible. I’ll call Russ and find out, and post it. I’d like to get it in a thread that might help someone else putting the parts together for the stroked I-6 engine.

Thanks! I would rather take the time to check as much as possible so there is less to worry about when starting it up.

Maybe I missed something but what does CR stand for? So the reason you are running the higher octane gas is due to your engine being a stroker. Should I be running a higher octane fuel in my Jeep?

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post #102 of 262 Old 03-28-2020, 10:47 AM
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CR is compression ratio. Higher compression ratio needs higher octane fuel.

Matt


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post #103 of 262 Old 03-28-2020, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
CR is compression ratio. Higher compression ratio needs higher octane fuel.

Matt

That makes more sense Thanks Matt

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post #104 of 262 Old 03-28-2020, 12:22 PM
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My 1995 (4.0 based) inline six 4.7 is designed to run around 9/1 CR on regular unleaded gasoline 87 octane. For comparison the 468 in my race car has 12.8/1 CR, I run E-85 (ethanol based fuel), which will support up to 14/1 CR. You can go to the website below for a CR calculator, and see what your 304 engine CR will be. FYI most OEM style or replacement head gaskets are around .040” thick and the head gasket opening is larger to account for overbore situations. If you don’t have a gasket to measure input an extra .2” into the calculator to get is close.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm

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post #105 of 262 Old 03-28-2020, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bmann412 View Post
So if I am understanding this correctly there is really only one way the pickup tube can be installed since it is threaded on. Comparing the new pick up to the original and the bends appear to be in same spots so I wouldn’t like to try and bend it unless it’s necessary. I agree that it would take a lot to displace the that much oil to starve the pickup. The way I see it there is no real need to change the distance between the pan and pickup unless someone else see’s something wrong with the current location.
Originally, there is a plastic button on the bottom of the oil pump pick up to provide clearance to the pan. Lots of times you will find this missing. To correct this, people install a bolt and nut through this hole (with Loctite) or weld on a spacer to provide the proper clearance. A worse thing could be the pick up sucking to the bottom of the pan and starving the motor of oil.

Sorry not to be able to attach pictures yet... If you would like to see a picture of what I'm describing, PM me and I will send by e-mail.

Thanks,

Greg
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