Bmann412's AMC 304 Rebuild - Page 5 - JeepForum.com
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post #61 of 259 Old 03-19-2020, 05:40 PM Thread Starter
Bmann412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Watson View Post
If you want to run a better cam but retain your stock springs, look into a Comp High Energy cam.
https://www.compcams.com/high-energy...c-290-401.html

Shawn


I didnít see this one. Would it be enough of a difference over stock to be worth the 150$?


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post #62 of 259 Old 03-19-2020, 06:00 PM
Shawn Watson
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I honestly have no idea. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on whether it's worth it or not.


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post #63 of 259 Old 03-19-2020, 08:49 PM
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What did you have done to the cylinder heads? I noticed them in a previous picture all cleaned up and painted, and you mentioned they were rebuilt. When you rebuild an engine, the cam choice is normally selected before doing the cylinder head work. This way the correct spring pressure and installed height can be addressed based on the cam chosen. This is normally performed while completing a valve job. It’s not too late to select a different cam, but if you do you should plan on taking the heads back to the machine shop so they can get the correct valve spring pressures and installed height set up for your new cam. That is not something a first time engine builder would have the tools or experience to do.

Who cleaned the oil passages inside the block & crankshaft? I ask because you said this is your first engine build.

After I get my block back from the machine shop, and before assembly I clean it thoroughly. I run wire brushes through all oil galleys. I have a collection of different sizes and a rifle-cleaning rod, that I use. Then I have a little party with hot soapy water, a scrub brush, and a hot water hose. You cannot get it too clean. I use hi pressure air to dry it, and blow the water out of the oil galleys. I sometimes I use brake or carb cleaner in aerosol cans, and hi pressure air instead of the hot soapy water bath, Either way the only way you will know if the parts are clean is if you do it yourself. The machine shop may hot tank it, if that’s something you had them do. They are not going to clean it the way it needs to be cleaned.

What are you using for assembly lube? Motor oil is fine, but I prefer Permatex Ultra slick, use plenty.

There is a special lube for the flat tappet cam for break-in purpose, that came with your cam, make sure you use it.

I’m not an expert, but I’ve built some engines over the years, and I want to see you get it right the first time.
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post #64 of 259 Old 03-19-2020, 09:46 PM
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What are you using for assembly lube? Motor oil is fine, but I prefer Permatex Ultra slick, use plenty.

Believe it or not, but I use 2 stroke outboard oil for assembly. It is super sticky and stays in place. I also always use the lube that comes with the cam for the cam bearings and lifters. I pack the oil pump with vasoline to prime easier when I am spinning the oil pump prior to closing up the engine. Using a pressure fed oil gauge with a piece of small fuel hose tells me that I have good pressure. I didn't do any of the "tricks" to get more oil pressure and still have 70-80 psi under load.
As far as the cam goes, use what makes you happy. I as stated before am using the Comp Cams 268H with stock type springs. The difference is that they are new stock type springs. I am never going to run it at high RPMs for any amount of time. I just wanted lope at idle and good driveability.
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post #65 of 259 Old 03-20-2020, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmann412 View Post
Part of the reason I am leaning towards what I have is I wouldnít have to buy new valve springs and buy a tool to remove them or try to rent one. Seems like there is a lot more to switching to a larger cam then meets the eye. First switch the cam out next is new valve spring and Who would want solid lifters so new hydraulic lifters and the list goes on and on. I would love to swap in a cam but if I do I donít want half do it. The cam you describe sounds like something I would be interested in but only if I wouldnít have to change out the valve springs. The Jeep is just going to be a cruiser and go to car shows so power isnít a huge concern. Thatís why I think stock would be fine.

If you are in this stage definitely go for the new cam. Does not to be the best hyper super one, just a bit more than from a factory. The stock cam is very conservative and just any slightly better cam will really wake up the engine. And the valve springs are also 30 or 40 years old.

If you have the heads on a bench then you do not need any special tool. If you have some scrap metal, couple of bolts and some tubing, drill, angle grinder (+ welder makes it easier) you can fab the valve spring tool in an hour. It is not a rocket science, just plain lever with a support. And during the build you want to change the valve stem seals anyway. You can also lap the valve seats. This can also be done at home vith only basic tools and patience. The same is for polishing the channels etc.

If you use the stock "umbrella" ones get the rubber style. The hard plastic become brittle quite fast and tends to fail.
Or you can take it to the head shop to machine down the guides to accept standard press in seals. If you go the shop way then they can do just about anything possible.


And one advice - change ALL freeze plugs on the engine block and heads. These are cheap, come in sets and are easy to do with engine on stand. But lot of people forgets to do that. And the last thing you want is putting a freshly rebuilt engine back and have a coolant leeak from a 40years old rotten plug.
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post #66 of 259 Old 03-20-2020, 06:47 AM Thread Starter
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So the assemble lube I am using is a Lucas product donít know the exact name off the top of my head. I also have been coating the cylinder walls in fresh engine oil. As for cleaning I cleaned both the block and crank with a set of engine brushes I got from summit. I made sure to run them through every port. As for the cam I still think I am going to stick with what I got. In the set of stuff I got from the machine shop I didnít receive any lube for the cam so I picked up COMP cams assembly lube 102 but that might not be right since it doesnít have ZDDP in it.

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post #67 of 259 Old 03-20-2020, 10:42 AM
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Iím glad you thoroughly cleaned your parts, thatís one less thing to worry about. Many assume a block or crankshaft isnít ready to assemble after coming from the machine shop, I just wanted to make sure cleaned your stuff. You can google camshaft assembly lube and find many products. I attached a picture of the Comp Cams version. Make sure you use break in oil with zinc in it or use the zinc additive. You can go to a GM dealer parts counter and get the additive in a small bottle, thatís what I do, but some people buy the special oil. Thereís nothing wrong with running a stock cam, the OEM engineers werenít stupid, the stuff they designed will work good. Your engine build is looking good!
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post #68 of 259 Old 03-20-2020, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axhammer View Post
Iím glad you thoroughly cleaned your parts, thatís one less thing to worry about. Many assume a block or crankshaft isnít ready to assemble after coming from the machine shop, I just wanted to make sure cleaned your stuff. You can google camshaft assembly lube and find many products. I attached a picture of the Comp Cams version. Make sure you use break in oil with zinc in it or use the zinc additive. You can go to a GM dealer parts counter and get the additive in a small bottle, thatís what I do, but some people buy the special oil. Thereís nothing wrong with running a stock cam, the OEM engineers werenít stupid, the stuff they designed will work good. Your engine build is looking good!

I tried to do as much research as I could before starting my rebuild. The one thing that came up time and time again was clean everything til itís spotless. I am not seeing the picture you attached but I will have to order some assembly lube thatís better fit for the cam. I saw that ZDDP was needed for break-in. Is it needed with every oil change. Is there a good oil to use with it pre-mixed or am I better off just adding to standard oil/synthetic? I am holding off on any major purchases until this corona virus stuff blows over.

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post #69 of 259 Old 03-20-2020, 05:40 PM
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I use the following oil & oil filter in my 1979 Jeep CJ5 304 V8 . . . . .

Valvoline VR1 10W-30 (Non-Synthetic). I change the oil with the oil filter twice a year. I put maybe 2,000 - 3,000 miles on my Jeep per year.

I purchase the oil and oil filter from Summit Racing.

https://www.valvoline.com/our-produc...vr1-racing-oil

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vlv-vv205-6

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wix-51258

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post #70 of 259 Old 03-20-2020, 08:00 PM
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Sorry about that, Iíll try again.
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post #71 of 259 Old 03-20-2020, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane4 View Post
I use the following oil & oil filter in my 1979 Jeep CJ5 304 V8 . . . . .



Valvoline VR1 10W-30 (Non-Synthetic). I change the oil with the oil filter twice a year. I put maybe 2,000 - 3,000 miles on my Jeep per year.



I purchase the oil and oil filter from Summit Racing.



https://www.valvoline.com/our-produc...vr1-racing-oil



https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vlv-vv205-6



https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wix-51258

Thanks thatís the exact info I am looking for. I have heard of valvoline vr1 just never saw it in the local auto parts stores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axhammer View Post
Sorry about that, Iíll try again.

Thanks I will get a bottle of that with my next summit order.

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post #72 of 259 Old 03-21-2020, 09:10 AM
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The oil filter is ultra important on an AMC V8 engine. You must use a filter with anti-drain back. I use the Purolator and some recommend the AC PF-24. A lot of the filters(Fram primarily) allow the oil to drain back after you turn the engine off creating a time your top end has no oil until it re-primes after start up
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post #73 of 259 Old 03-21-2020, 10:42 AM
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On using an oil filter with anti drain back valve.

See the WIX 51258 illustration below from the Summit Racing web site:
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post #74 of 259 Old 03-21-2020, 11:22 AM
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Great info on the Wix filter. I had not looked at those before. If you google the Wix part number, you can find them pretty cheap. Rockauto has them for $4.25, but through Walmart Online they are $6.76 with free ship to store.
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post #75 of 259 Old 03-21-2020, 12:04 PM
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FYI, the NAPA Gold 1258 oil filter is the exact Wix filter mentioned above. That's all I use on my 360.

Matt


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