Battery Charging - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 16 Old 04-02-2020, 07:47 PM Thread Starter
turbogus
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Battery Charging

Howdy all,
I've since got a Schumaker battery charger for my charging needs to replace a pair of NAPA 85-323A chargers.



This isn't the right forum I think but given all of the work done in this section I thought it may be appropriate. These 85-323A's seem to continue charging without going to standby mode as they did when they were new. Is there an internal switch I can repair or does anyone know of a diagnostic routine to see if these NAPA ones are actually functioning at their correct rates?

Thanks in advance for any insights.
Gus


The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep
We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch)
Record heat waves and floods only occur when we visit that area
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post #2 of 16 Old 04-02-2020, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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I ran a voltage test on the newest and it was charging at 5.28V, the older one at 2.59V I'm thinking there's burned out diodes in these guys that I may be able to repair, if'n I can find my no. 1 phillips, and get the parts from Mouser.com or somewhere.

The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep
We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch)
Record heat waves and floods only occur when we visit that area
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post #3 of 16 Old 04-03-2020, 07:31 AM
John Strenk
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Mouser or Digikey.

Find a schematic?


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post #4 of 16 Old 04-03-2020, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
turbogus
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Thanks John, no schematic yet, but I was digging on some YouTube vid last night and it seems the large footprint chargers can be rebuilt by means of checking out the rectifier or the thermal switch. Since these two have low voltage rather than none at all I may be looking at a portion of the diodes being burnt out if I'm barking up the right tree.

The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep
We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch)
Record heat waves and floods only occur when we visit that area
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post #5 of 16 Old 04-03-2020, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
turbogus
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I finally found a no. 1 phillips screwdriver (that I rarely use) and removed the 6 screws in the back two of which are concealed under the two hooks for stowing the wires. I was hopeful that a schematic on the inside of the back cover but none to be found. The internal components look familiar with that large format charger I saw on YouTube. Given as this is the small homeowner size it looks like the 85-323A has a sealed rectifier,



so no way to diagnose it. Externally there's no sign of overheating in the wiring or the PCB. The image above is similar to the rectifier I have in appearance but, of course the amperage and voltage will be the key. HAH~! found the part no. on this little dingus S25VB 10 04. Apparently the basic component is widely available but I'm not certain yet that this is the problem.

The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep
We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch)
Record heat waves and floods only occur when we visit that area
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post #6 of 16 Old 04-03-2020, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
turbogus
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Done some more studying on bridge rectifiers and found pin A which will be a primary step if I choose to replace.

The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep
We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch)
Record heat waves and floods only occur when we visit that area
turbogus is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 04-04-2020, 06:20 AM
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Here is my take or WAG. Most of these newer battery chargers are pulse type, they do not have a constant voltage like the old ones. During the off pulse is when they measure the battery to see if its charged correctly and make the adjustments to the charge rates. Its part of the newer safety features so if you have the charger on and accidentally touch the leads together it won't spark because it sees no voltage and will not assume the charge work until it senses a preset voltage. I know on my Schumaker if the battery is real low it won't switch on and I have to hit the battery with an older charger for a few minutes. Frustrating with the lawn mower batteries.

The same circuit used for safety is also what determines when to go into charge mode and when to go into maintain mode. So I would suspect there is a measuring circuit that controls a voltage regulator like an LM196 or LM396 and that controller is full on all the time. Probably eight pin IC that does the control. If the bridge rectifier was bad, you probably wouldn't see any charging action.
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post #8 of 16 Old 04-04-2020, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Dryseals, as it happens these pair of NAPA 85-323s are rather old, while on the panel it mentions a float mode.
I learned how and checked out the bridge rectifier yesterday with my multi meter and the diodes seem okay. So a VR circuit on the board that may be the cause, the internals of these old chargers is rather simple and I'm hoping to get to the bottom of this. On the other hand as NAPA no longer carries this type of battery charger anymore that may be an indication that they're just build shoddily and superseded.

I was able to find the Battery Tender Plus (1.25 Amp) charger



that I used to use on my turbo Z bike, it still works so I'll use it to keep my secondary battery up to snuff in the meantime.

The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep
We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch)
Record heat waves and floods only occur when we visit that area
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post #9 of 16 Old 04-05-2020, 06:14 AM
Dryseals
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Post a picture of the guts, I used to do electronics in the Navy, puts me in quest more while in isolation
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post #10 of 16 Old 04-05-2020, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
turbogus
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Cool, thanks DrySeals, after I get it together today I'll snap some

The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep
We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch)
Record heat waves and floods only occur when we visit that area
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post #11 of 16 Old 04-05-2020, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
turbogus
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Okay, it took some doing to figure out how to download images from my old Panasonic digital camera, couldn't find that USB cable. Then it slowly dawned on us to use the card slot on my computer.

So here goes first the case;



the Bridge Rectifier



what I think is the Circuit Breaker



the Circuit Board



and the Transformer




So this seems a rather simple device to me, AC in, the Rectifier to alter the current to DC out, limiting circuitry for the amperage and voltage regulating, a Circuit Breaker to protect in case of a short and a switch to change from standard battery charging to Deep Cell, which I suspect diminishes the current.

The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep
We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch)
Record heat waves and floods only occur when we visit that area
turbogus is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 04-06-2020, 08:43 AM
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Here is a decent little article about a simple battery charger, not what you have but will get you in the ball park. In their case they use a relay to turn on and off the charger. In your case you have a trickle/maintain mode once the battery gets to a certain charge point. I suspect the devices that help regulate the charge are under the heat sink on the right. Having to clear cob webs for the old analog stuff and something tells me that once the charger goes into trickle/maintain mode it stays there until the power on the charger is toggled. The zener diode at the base of the op amp is there for a reference voltage. So just looking at their schematic (which similar to all the others I have seen) my suspect is that the circuit that senses the battery charge voltage is going to be in a couple of the other zeners on your board and one has opened up and the circuit thinks the charge voltage is always high. Not too complicated a circuit. I would pull the board and try drawing out the circuit then come back and take some voltage measurements. I tried but could not find a schematic and zeners are know for opening up over the years as they are constant working little buggers.
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post #13 of 16 Old 04-06-2020, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
turbogus
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Yes indeed Dryseals, the only contact under that right side heat sink is a 3 pin voltage regulator,

...and I think these are the two Zener Diodes on that board;


The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep
We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch)
Record heat waves and floods only occur when we visit that area
turbogus is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 04-07-2020, 06:49 AM
Dryseals
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I think those are standard diodes. Notice at the top of the board you have what appears to be a layout for a full wave bridge with two blanks and two jumpers and they are labeled "W", not sure I have ever seen diodes on a board labeled as "W" but for what ever reason that is how they are labeled. At the bottom are what I would say are the zeners labeled as "Z".

I strongly suspect the board is dual purpose, one sold as a Charger/Maintainer and the other sold as just a Maintainer and when sold as a Maintainer the upper "W"s are actually diodes for a lower current bridge rectifier and I'm sure as the maintainer there are a few other components removed and jumpers added.
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post #15 of 16 Old 04-07-2020, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
turbogus
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Thanks for the clarification Dryseals, I was just going by the amber color w/black mark on one end, rather than checking the labeling of the PCB.



I wonder if it's just a matter of the solder failing on the reverse of the board at that (Z2) that's causing this low charge issue.

The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep
We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch)
Record heat waves and floods only occur when we visit that area
turbogus is offline  
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