Anyone not using a torque arm on their 4.0 - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 31 Old 04-11-2015, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
Dborns
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Anyone not using a torque arm on their 4.0

Its a little late to be thinking about this now as I have the tub on the frame, but I keep going back to not having a torque arm on my 4.0. I'm using the XJ transmission mount that I got with the motor, and just drilled four new holes in my skid plate for it to sit on. I was looking at it recently, and didn't see a real easy way to go back and get a torque plate put in, not only because of the tight quarters in there, but how the TM sits on the mount. The mount looks like this and just has the four small bolts going through the skid:

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post #2 of 31 Old 04-11-2015, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
Dborns
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Is anyone else not using a torque plate, and what can happen if you don't? Is it more for driving when you really get on it as you would if you were mudding, or do you need those in everyday driving?

Thanks
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post #3 of 31 Old 04-11-2015, 12:34 PM
thord
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Got this while back thought it would fit my T176, but it didn't. Don't know what it goes to, would this be what you need?

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post #4 of 31 Old 04-11-2015, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
Dborns
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Yeah, thats a torque arm. I have one just like it that came off a T18 I bought. I got the 4.0 from an XJ and it didn't come with a torque arm so I didn't even think to put one on it until recently when I was seeing threads about them. I'm hoping I don't have any issues without one because it'll be a big project getting one in there now.
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post #5 of 31 Old 04-11-2015, 02:50 PM
only in a jeep cj
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Well, here's my thoughts or logic on this. Your asking on whether or not to use the torque arm on a 4.0 install? Correct? It has nothing to do with what engine it is or what came with it from the donor. Here's why. The 4.2 and the 4.0 are the same shape and size. The difference is how that shape and size are held in place. In the CJ frame, the engine mounts are closer to the engine, leaning like a cradle toward the engine, and down low. Because of this, the engine exerts more torque or twist into the mounts. Thus a torque arm is used back at the transmission.
In the later Jeep like the YJ and TJ, the engine mounts are wider and up higher in relation to the engine placement in the frame. Its more like its hanging from, rather than sitting in the mounts. Because of this, the transmission mount is different (as is the pan it bolts to).

So I my opinion only, IF you have a CJ frame with CJ engine mounts holding either a 4.2 or a 4.0, then yes, I would use the CJ torque arm as it is part of a matched system used in that platform.

Now assuming that your using a non CJ transmission behind that 4.0 such as a AX-15 or NV3550, I would place the engine/transmission combo without the tcase . This will allow you to see where the transmission holes line up compared to those of say a T-5 or T176 (again assuming your talking about your 83 in your sig so you'd have a later CJ belly pan). This will allow you to either move the pan to the nearest frame holes or mod the torque arm to adapt to the new transmission. Just because the "XJ mount" was used in the donor doesn't mean it is the best fit for the CJ. Does it sit too high? does it not line up on a flat section of the pan? I would modify the torque arm and use it, if it was me.

Ed
1975 CJ-6 1983 CJ-8
1986 CJ-7 Laredo 1986 2003 Inca Gold TJ Rubicon
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post #6 of 31 Old 04-11-2015, 04:39 PM
RenoF250
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I am not using the factory torque arm. I made a new mount out of 3/8" that extends out both sides and sits on poly bushings. It is much thinned than the factory so the pan can be up but the yoke is still down so I do not have vibration.
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post #7 of 31 Old 04-11-2015, 04:58 PM
ThisGuyUKnow
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Advanced adapters has a plate for marrying a nv3550 or ax15 to a yj. The plate is 50 dollars and is counter sunk to mount flush to the trans and has studs for the yj tranny mount.

What you can do is remove one stud and move it to match the cj mount, then bolt it up with your arm just like stock that's what I did on mine.

1985 CJ7 Laredo, 4.0, NV3550, D300, 3.31 AMC 20 w/trac loc
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post #8 of 31 Old 04-11-2015, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
Dborns
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I knew I should have looked into this further before I put the tub on. I got under it with the T18 torque arm I have to see if there's anyway to get one in there and its really tight. The TM sits so close to the skidplate that I would have to raise the motor and trans to just disconnect the TM from the mount.

The XJ mount seemed like the way to go because it came with the motor, and its nice and big and fit right on the skid plate. I really questioned the four small bolts that connect it to the skid plate wondering how those wouldn't get sheared if there was alot of lateral torque put on them.
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post #9 of 31 Old 04-12-2015, 09:22 AM
Matt1981CJ7
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I'd support the transmission with a jack, remove the skid plate, and install the torque arm.

Matt
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post #10 of 31 Old 04-12-2015, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
Dborns
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Quote:
I'd support the transmission with a jack, remove the skid plate, and install the torque arm.
I wish it were that easy, but I know nothing ever really is with this thing! I should have looked into it further when I had the tub off and could get to everything, but its too late now so I'll have to install it as is. I figured supporting the TM was the way to go as you suggest, and I'll just have to install it and remove it a few times to mark holes in the skid, but that's ok. IIRC, I didn't have much room between the bottom of the TM compared to the skidplate because the mount that I used was all the way back on the skid, which drops the motor down pretty low, not allowing much room to work.

I'll add this to my to do list.

Thanks
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post #11 of 31 Old 04-14-2015, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Well the good news is I got under the TM today and started looking at how difficult it will be to put a torque arm in, and it doesn't look to bad. As Matt suggested, I will just drop the skid, drill new holes in the torque plate to match up to the bolts in the TM, then mount everything back up and drill a hole through the skid for the torque arm bolt. That shouldn't set me back more than a day or so.
The bad news is I noticed a missing bolt in the TM flange where one should be coming from the clocking ring. Then I found the busted bolt sitting on top of the skid plate. And when checking the other ones, I found an second busted bolt. Both just sheared right off. Looking at it from the front, one bolt is at 3 o'clock, and the other is at 7 o'clock on the ring. There's no way that this thing will stay sealed missing two of the seven bolts holding it to the TM.

I'm getting so close, and then I take huge steps back like this today. So frustrating.
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post #12 of 31 Old 04-14-2015, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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These sheared off almost flush with the TC case. I have no idea how that happened because it's not been driven and if I do move it, I just pull it out in the driveway. The holes between the TM adapter must have been off a little causing the bolts to shear due to side load. I hope there's enough of the broken bolt still there to get it off once I remove the TC.
If I do get them removed should I go back with grade 8 studs, and open the holes in the TM flange a little bit?
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post #13 of 31 Old 04-14-2015, 05:36 PM
John Strenk
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What transmission/transfer case combination are you using?
AX-15 or T-18 with a Dana 30 or something else.

If the jeeps hasn't been driven, the only thing I can think of are faulty studs .Id replace them all as the only force was tension on those studs.

Who's clocking ring did you use? I'm a little confused how a mounting bolt can go all the way from the trany to t-case through the clocking ring.

also

Don't forget you can move the whole skid plate forward or backwards if you need to get the tranny/engine on a better angle. All the holes should be in the frame already. Just pick the right set.


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post #14 of 31 Old 04-14-2015, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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I'm using a 4.0/AX15/Dana 300 with the TM mated to the Dana with a 7/8" clocking ring off of ebay. It seemed high quality, but yes it's just been sitting there and the small amount of movement caused those threaded studs to shear. I've been looking at Grade 8 threaded studs online but need to remove the TC so I can take one of the studs out to see how long they are and the thread count so I can order the correct ones. I just hope there's enough meat left on those broken studs to be able to get them out.

As far as your question on the mounting bolts, the ring had bolts that go thru the ring and screw into the existing holes in the dana, securing the ring to the TC, and then numerous threaded holes all the way around the ring. You use the threaded holes that closest match up to the holes in the TM mounting flange, run the studs into those holes, and mate the TC to the TM. Those studs stick out thru the TM mounting holes and you then tighten everything together with the nuts. Mine sheared off right where the TC meets the clocking ring.

The skid plate I did try different mounting positions but I'm using an XJ transmission mount so my CJ skid didn't have corresponding holes. I got those drilled easily, but have to do some more work for a torque arm since the 4.0/AX/clock ring/ pushes everything to the far back of the skid plate.

I was also thinking of fabbing a crossmember for the Dana 300 as that would take some stress off the studs mating the TM to the clocking ring, but maybe grade 8 studs will be sufficient.
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post #15 of 31 Old 04-14-2015, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dborns View Post
Well the good news is I got under the TM today and started looking at how difficult it will be to put a torque arm in, and it doesn't look to bad. As Matt suggested, I will just drop the skid, drill new holes in the torque plate to match up to the bolts in the TM, then mount everything back up and drill a hole through the skid for the torque arm bolt. That shouldn't set me back more than a day or so.
The bad news is I noticed a missing bolt in the TM flange where one should be coming from the clocking ring. Then I found the busted bolt sitting on top of the skid plate. And when checking the other ones, I found an second busted bolt. Both just sheared right off. Looking at it from the front, one bolt is at 3 o'clock, and the other is at 7 o'clock on the ring. There's no way that this thing will stay sealed missing two of the seven bolts holding it to the TM.

I'm getting so close, and then I take huge steps back like this today. So frustrating.
This the second time I am suggesting this on this thread.
http://www.advanceadapters.com/produ...-yj-wranglers/
The above adapter plate is made for YJs its listed as nv3550 but the ax15 has the same pattern on the bottom . You can take that plate and drill out on of the studs. And relocate it to match your Original torque arm mount. and then bolt it to your skid plate. no Need to cut the or drill the skid plate.It will keep the mount centered on the original mount holes for the tranny.

Been running that setup for over 3k miles since i installed it last year.


See Post 42. http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f2/4-0...01/index5.html
Complete thread on 4.0 install with 4.0 trans from start to finish.

1985 CJ7 Laredo, 4.0, NV3550, D300, 3.31 AMC 20 w/trac loc
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