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post #16 of 27 Old 10-08-2019, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
JakRoland
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I know it isnít ideal but would it be wrong to go with the 2.5Ē lift, 1.25Ē spidertrax spacers, and 33Ē tires?


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post #17 of 27 Old 10-08-2019, 01:27 PM
agear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakRoland View Post
I know it isn’t ideal but would it be wrong to go with the 2.5” lift, 1.25” spidertrax spacers, and 33” tires?


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I think there is a con to using spacers. I have a 2.5 inch bds and a 1 inch body and 33 x12.50. I wonder if super swampers still make a 33 x 15.
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1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #18 of 27 Old 11-12-2019, 01:36 PM
cpadget
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4.5" Rubicon Express lift, with 35's: just for a visual. My ride is pretty good, but I do have 4.88 gears, which works fairly well up to 65 mph. I wouldn't feel super comfortable any higher than that
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post #19 of 27 Old 11-12-2019, 10:12 PM
BagusJeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakRoland View Post
I know it isn’t ideal but would it be wrong to go with the 2.5” lift, 1.25” spidertrax spacers, and 33” tires?


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The lift and tyres and spacers will work together but you would also need to regear as a 1984 had very tall gearing for economy but you may also need new wider wheels and wider fender flares.

The stock tyres were 29" so a move to 33" is an increase in circumference and gearing of 14%. That is a lot for a 258, and it will bog down unless you regear.

The width of the 33" tyres you are looking at is what? 12.5"? That needs an 8.5" to 11" wide wheel, wider than it came with stock so you need new wheels if they are 8" or less. You could look for a wheel with different backspacing, which will have the same effect as the Spyder spacers. Pushing the tyres out also allow you to change the stop position on the front to minimise turning radius. Thos big tyres can rub the suspension on a fairly small turn, pushing them outwards is the solution. This is why wheel spacers come in useful sometimes, but if you are buying new wheels anyway you can do without them or do both and get a lot wider track.

If the tyres are further out you will need wider wheel arches / fender flares to avoid flicking up rocks into other windshields. Some States may enforce this but it is generally good practice. Picture of bagusjeep below with some cheap flares, see how they cover up the tyres with the wider track from more backspacing and spacers. cpadget, with all due respect, has not done this with the 35" tyres and may be running illegally. When i looked it up, I realised I would also be illegal as my fender flares do not extend down to the axle centreline, eek, but when did you see a mudflap on a CJ on this forum? (Happily the police here do not enforce stuff). This applies in Washington state:


"...no person may operate any motor vehicle, trailer, cargo extension, or semitrailer that is not equipped with fenders, covers, flaps, or splash aprons adequate for minimizing the spray or splash of water or mud from the roadway to the rear of the vehicle. All such devices shall be as wide as the tires behind which they are mounted and extend downward at least to the center of the axle."


If you want this on the highway you may want to think of tyre type. A modern car with ABS on modern highway tyres in the dry could manage approaching 1g of deceleration. a 1984 CJ7 on large mud terrain tyres closer to 0.6g. In the wet the braking distance will be much, much longer for the CJ7. If you drive mud terrains on highway, you are best advised to drive slowly and keep a large distance to the vehicle in front. Off road and on trails of course you can go places that car will never be able to but All terrain tyres are a better solution if you rarely go real off roading. Personally, I just drive slowly and carefully and only a few times have I had close shaves linked to the limited grip, but we rarely go above 40 mph here.

Lastly, did your Dad Nutter the engine and alter the distributor mechanical advance. If you are removing, or your Dad removed, the emissions spaghetti on the 1984, there are a few things to look at to get maximum power from the 258, which will transform its driveability for a few dollars. You may not feel the need to upgun to a V8 once you experience the joy of the 258 on a trail in its unfettered early 80s guise.
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BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #20 of 27 Old 11-13-2019, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
JakRoland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BagusJeep View Post
The lift and tyres and spacers will work together but you would also need to regear as a 1984 had very tall gearing for economy but you may also need new wider wheels and wider fender flares.

The stock tyres were 29" so a move to 33" is an increase in circumference and gearing of 14%. That is a lot for a 258, and it will bog down unless you regear.

The width of the 33" tyres you are looking at is what? 12.5"? That needs an 8.5" to 11" wide wheel, wider than it came with stock so you need new wheels if they are 8" or less. You could look for a wheel with different backspacing, which will have the same effect as the Spyder spacers. Pushing the tyres out also allow you to change the stop position on the front to minimise turning radius. Thos big tyres can rub the suspension on a fairly small turn, pushing them outwards is the solution. This is why wheel spacers come in useful sometimes, but if you are buying new wheels anyway you can do without them or do both and get a lot wider track.

If the tyres are further out you will need wider wheel arches / fender flares to avoid flicking up rocks into other windshields. Some States may enforce this but it is generally good practice. Picture of bagusjeep below with some cheap flares, see how they cover up the tyres with the wider track from more backspacing and spacers. cpadget, with all due respect, has not done this with the 35" tyres and may be running illegally. When i looked it up, I realised I would also be illegal as my fender flares do not extend down to the axle centreline, eek, but when did you see a mudflap on a CJ on this forum? (Happily the police here do not enforce stuff). This applies in Washington state:


"...no person may operate any motor vehicle, trailer, cargo extension, or semitrailer that is not equipped with fenders, covers, flaps, or splash aprons adequate for minimizing the spray or splash of water or mud from the roadway to the rear of the vehicle. All such devices shall be as wide as the tires behind which they are mounted and extend downward at least to the center of the axle."


If you want this on the highway you may want to think of tyre type. A modern car with ABS on modern highway tyres in the dry could manage approaching 1g of deceleration. a 1984 CJ7 on large mud terrain tyres closer to 0.6g. In the wet the braking distance will be much, much longer for the CJ7. If you drive mud terrains on highway, you are best advised to drive slowly and keep a large distance to the vehicle in front. Off road and on trails of course you can go places that car will never be able to but All terrain tyres are a better solution if you rarely go real off roading. Personally, I just drive slowly and carefully and only a few times have I had close shaves linked to the limited grip, but we rarely go above 40 mph here.

Lastly, did your Dad Nutter the engine and alter the distributor mechanical advance. If you are removing, or your Dad removed, the emissions spaghetti on the 1984, there are a few things to look at to get maximum power from the 258, which will transform its driveability for a few dollars. You may not feel the need to upgun to a V8 once you experience the joy of the 258 on a trail in its unfettered early 80s guise.


This was very helpful, thank you sir. I have plans of upgrading the wheels the same time as the lift, Iíll put the link below of what Iím looking at.

How do I determine my gearing I have in it now and such? I know it isnít the original engine because there wasnít one in it when he bought it. Other than that Iím not sure what is in it as far of drive train.

Iíve also got new fender flares picked out for when it goes to the body shop for rust removal and paint later on.


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post #21 of 27 Old 11-13-2019, 01:17 PM
agear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakRoland View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BagusJeep View Post
The lift and tyres and spacers will work together but you would also need to regear as a 1984 had very tall gearing for economy but you may also need new wider wheels and wider fender flares.

The stock tyres were 29" so a move to 33" is an increase in circumference and gearing of 14%. That is a lot for a 258, and it will bog down unless you regear.

The width of the 33" tyres you are looking at is what? 12.5"? That needs an 8.5" to 11" wide wheel, wider than it came with stock so you need new wheels if they are 8" or less. You could look for a wheel with different backspacing, which will have the same effect as the Spyder spacers. Pushing the tyres out also allow you to change the stop position on the front to minimise turning radius. Thos big tyres can rub the suspension on a fairly small turn, pushing them outwards is the solution. This is why wheel spacers come in useful sometimes, but if you are buying new wheels anyway you can do without them or do both and get a lot wider track.

If the tyres are further out you will need wider wheel arches / fender flares to avoid flicking up rocks into other windshields. Some States may enforce this but it is generally good practice. Picture of bagusjeep below with some cheap flares, see how they cover up the tyres with the wider track from more backspacing and spacers. cpadget, with all due respect, has not done this with the 35" tyres and may be running illegally. When i looked it up, I realised I would also be illegal as my fender flares do not extend down to the axle centreline, eek, but when did you see a mudflap on a CJ on this forum? (Happily the police here do not enforce stuff). This applies in Washington state:


"...no person may operate any motor vehicle, trailer, cargo extension, or semitrailer that is not equipped with fenders, covers, flaps, or splash aprons adequate for minimizing the spray or splash of water or mud from the roadway to the rear of the vehicle. All such devices shall be as wide as the tires behind which they are mounted and extend downward at least to the center of the axle."


If you want this on the highway you may want to think of tyre type. A modern car with ABS on modern highway tyres in the dry could manage approaching 1g of deceleration. a 1984 CJ7 on large mud terrain tyres closer to 0.6g. In the wet the braking distance will be much, much longer for the CJ7. If you drive mud terrains on highway, you are best advised to drive slowly and keep a large distance to the vehicle in front. Off road and on trails of course you can go places that car will never be able to but All terrain tyres are a better solution if you rarely go real off roading. Personally, I just drive slowly and carefully and only a few times have I had close shaves linked to the limited grip, but we rarely go above 40 mph here.

Lastly, did your Dad Nutter the engine and alter the distributor mechanical advance. If you are removing, or your Dad removed, the emissions spaghetti on the 1984, there are a few things to look at to get maximum power from the 258, which will transform its driveability for a few dollars. You may not feel the need to upgun to a V8 once you experience the joy of the 258 on a trail in its unfettered early 80s guise.


This was very helpful, thank you sir. I have plans of upgrading the wheels the same time as the lift, I’ll put the link below of what I’m looking at.

How do I determine my gearing I have in it now and such? I know it isn’t the original engine because there wasn’t one in it when he bought it. Other than that I’m not sure what is in it as far of drive train.

I’ve also got new fender flares picked out for when it goes to the body shop for rust removal and paint later on.


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Count the number of ring gear teeth you have , count the number of pinion teeth you have and count the noumber of ring gear teeth by pinion teeth

Or if you dont want to pop the cover...
Turn the wheel TWO revolutions and count the number of driveshaft turns. The number of driveshaft rotations will help you determine your rear*axle ratio. For example, if it turned 3 and a half times, it's a 3.50:1*ratio. If it turned 4 and a quarter times, it's a 4.25:1*ratio.

There are other write ups on that method I think

1984 jeep cj7, 258 I6, rebuilt T176,rebuilt Dana 300, amc 20 , dana 30, 4.10's Trac-lok in rear , 4.10's detroit soft locker in dana 30, 2.5 inch bds suspension lift, 1 inch polyurethan body mount lift. Line ex. weber carburetor. factory tach. factory clock ,oem replacement speedomter cluster, and oil pressure gauge, factory volt gauge.
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post #22 of 27 Old 11-13-2019, 04:22 PM
MetalMountainGoat
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In all honesty, if you are on this site asking the question "what lift is best to go with?" Then you should probably just go with a small lift 2-3" and 33s. I'm not knocking your skills, as I don't know anything about you, but SOA should definitely be out of the running if you are asking what size lift to go with.

I just got finished repairing a horrible attempt at an SOA lift that was done by the PO of my jeep. It was a mess and unless you are willing to do some axle swapping/fabrication, then SOA should not be attempted.

Personally, I think these jeeps look better with smaller lifts rather than huge 5+ inches of lift. I have 2.5" with 33x12.50 on mine, and it sits just right in my opinion.
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post #23 of 27 Old 11-13-2019, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
JakRoland
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SOA was never in the running


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post #24 of 27 Old 11-13-2019, 05:55 PM
Trapshooter
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Jak.......for what it's worth. I installed a BDS 2 1/2" lift, with 1" body spacers and 1/2" BDS boomerang shakles. In effect giving me a 4" lift. I am running 33" Cooper STT tires. I have 4.10 diffs, with a Detroit locker in the AMC 20 and a Dana Powerlock up front in the Dana 30. Drive-ability on the street is OK. The Detroit locker in the back makes for some interesting characteristics on the pavement.

I went through what you are going through about nine years ago. I have no regrets for the decisions I made and would do it all over again. My CJ will go places that I am not willing to go!

Take your time, do your research and decide what you want from your Jeep. There is nothing cooler than taking my CJ to a local Jeep club event as everyone wants to look at the older rigs.

I am sure your Dad would be proud you have decided to keep the CJ7 in the family.

Keep us posted on what you decided to do. Be sure to post photos of your progress......we love pics of the work!

Here are a couple of pics:
Attached Thumbnails
20190926_170843.jpg   20191025_134747.jpg  

'86 CJ7, 258, Carter BBD, Nutter'ed, TeamRush'ed, T-18, Twin Sticked Dana 300, D30 Frt-Pwr Lok L/S-4.10, AMC 20 Rear-Mosers-Detroit Locker-4.10, 2.5 BDS Lift, 1" Body Lift, 33" Wild Country M/Ts, Black Spoke wheels

'45 CJ2A, L134 Go Devil, T-90 Tranny, Warn O/D, T-18 T-Case, Dana 25 Frt, Dana 41 Rear, 531st CJ made

My 401 build:
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post #25 of 27 Old 11-13-2019, 09:25 PM
BagusJeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trapshooter View Post
Jak.......for what it's worth. I installed a BDS 2 1/2" lift, with 1" body spacers and 1/2" BDS boomerang shakles. In effect giving me a 4" lift. I am running 33" Cooper STT tires. I have 4.10 diffs, with a Detroit locker in the AMC 20 and a Dana Powerlock up front in the Dana 30. Drive-ability on the street is OK. The Detroit locker in the back makes for some interesting characteristics on the pavement.

I went through what you are going through about nine years ago. I have no regrets for the decisions I made and would do it all over again. My CJ will go places that I am not willing to go!

Take your time, do your research and decide what you want from your Jeep. There is nothing cooler than taking my CJ to a local Jeep club event as everyone wants to look at the older rigs.

I am sure your Dad would be proud you have decided to keep the CJ7 in the family.

Keep us posted on what you decided to do. Be sure to post photos of your progress......we love pics of the work!

Here are a couple of pics:
Trapshoioter, great looking rig. Do you recall the size and backspacing of your wheels (just to give the OP some idea of what you can achieve)

BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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post #26 of 27 Old 11-13-2019, 09:31 PM
Trapshooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BagusJeep View Post
Trapshoioter, great looking rig. Do you recall the size and backspacing of your wheels (just to give the OP some idea of what you can achieve)
Bagus........Thank you. The wheels are 15" I want to say the backspacing is 3 or 3 1/2" inch but I am guessing. I don't remember exactly. I also have the Xenon extend flairs. They just barely make me legal in Oregon buy covering the tires.

'86 CJ7, 258, Carter BBD, Nutter'ed, TeamRush'ed, T-18, Twin Sticked Dana 300, D30 Frt-Pwr Lok L/S-4.10, AMC 20 Rear-Mosers-Detroit Locker-4.10, 2.5 BDS Lift, 1" Body Lift, 33" Wild Country M/Ts, Black Spoke wheels

'45 CJ2A, L134 Go Devil, T-90 Tranny, Warn O/D, T-18 T-Case, Dana 25 Frt, Dana 41 Rear, 531st CJ made

My 401 build:
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Last edited by Trapshooter; 11-13-2019 at 09:32 PM. Reason: Add to the post
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post #27 of 27 Old 11-13-2019, 09:32 PM
BagusJeep
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Your axle ratio was originally stamped probably on an AMC20 axle (round cover). Here is where it is located and what it may mean, if you can find it. I would however still check manually, as PO tend to change things.
Attached Thumbnails
axles rear.jpg  
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BagusJeep lives in Bali with far too many 4x4s:
1981 CJ7 258ci - Bagusjeep
1984 CJ7 258ci - Puthijeep
1981 J20 258ci - Gladys
1951 Willys CJ3A/MB/M38 - Little Willy
1995 Cherokee 4.0 - CHEROKEE
1980 Land Rover Series III 109" troop carrier - ROVER
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