79 CJ7 258 engine swap to 1981 model 258 No start - Page 8 - JeepForum.com
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post #106 of 122 Old 05-20-2020, 10:57 AM
Willyc
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I’ve been following this since the first post. I chimed in earlier about my HEI installation. I also had trouble with my timing light giving me intermittent flashes. I struggled with it for a while then I bought another timing light. Turns out my first timing light failed. It might be worth borrowing or renting one to eliminate that what if.

Also, I’m still wondering how much fuel your gett through the carb. Have you tried disconnecting the fuel line upstream of the fuel filter, upstream of the carb to see if your getting fuel and adequate volumes of fuel. Then have you pumped the throttle linkage while you look into the carb. You should be seeing generous squirt of fuel each time you exercise the throttle.

If I understand correctly, you’ve been Through two different HEI products with the same results. I have to believe it’s not the ignition or the way you’ve wired it, with and without the relay. I’m thinking something more basic must be at play: ground or fuel perhaps.

Just advice worth what you paid for it from a nimrod Jeeper.

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post #107 of 122 Old 05-21-2020, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
LHFarm
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Almost

Almost there!
OK, thanks for being patient with me. Let me tell you what I've been doing and answer a couple of questions that have been asked.
1. I have been charging the battery after every test. I even purchased a new HF digital charger that seems to work well.
1a. Installed new starter solenoid. No difference,
2. I wire the distributor directly to the battery, bypass the relay. No difference.
2a Made sure I had spark on all plugs.
3. I used an old timing gun, the kind with a spring you slip between the plug and wire and clamp to that. I could get enough of a flash to see the timing marks
4. That allowed me to set the timing to 9 degrees.
5. Moved the battery ground to the block location pictured in an earlier post. Ground the paint off the block first.
6. I'm still not certain about the wiring - but here is what happened on my first try to start by adding fuel -


I think I am headed in the right direction!!!!
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post #108 of 122 Old 05-21-2020, 02:12 PM
John Strenk
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Yeah that's great.

Now why is the gas not coming out the carb properly??

Did you ever see gas coming out the accelerator nozzles when you pump the gas?? ??


Had a terrible thought that maybe the Venturi jets were installed backwards....


Are they removable in a Weber 38 as they are in a 32/36?


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post #109 of 122 Old 05-21-2020, 02:51 PM
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Nice! Looks like you've gotten everything covered down to fuel delivery.

The question I would ask now is, "Can the top come off to see if the bowl is full, or dry?" If it's full, then your jets might be clogged. If it's empty, then the float could be out of adjustment and the needle valve is most likely closed/blocked.

I'm not sure how far you want to go digging, but this article might be helpful: https://www.streetsource.com/wiki/76...ets-weber-3236 At least it'll get the top off and show you if the bowl is empty or dry. And of course, be extra careful not to drop anything down the throat. I had a similar Weber on my black '85 Nissan 4x4, which the needle valve was clogged. I first whacked the top of the carb with the butt end of a screwdriver, which got it flowing again, but my buddy recommended pulling the top off to see if it was clogged. It was dirty, so when I pulled the top off, I was able to clean the bowl. The floats and needle valve should be attached to the underside of the top. Make sure the floats move and down without binding and see if needle valve is cycling up and down as well (it's gravity-based, with the floats moving up to close the needle valve, and down to open and let fuel in - if it's out of adjustment, the needle valve might be closed no matter where the floats are, preventing fuel from getting into the bowl).

You can also fill the bowl by adding gas before reinstalling the top. That should be able to tell you if the jets are clogged when you try to start it - it should run for a few moments until the bowl empties itself if the jets are clear (and the needle valve is closed, or fuel's not making it to the bowl).

Somebody chime in on this if I've got it all wrong - it was over 20 years ago when I last owned and worked on that truck.
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post #110 of 122 Old 05-21-2020, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
LHFarm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Strenk View Post
Yeah that's great.

Now why is the gas not coming out the carb properly??

Did you ever see gas coming out the accelerator nozzles when you pump the gas?? ??


Had a terrible thought that maybe the Venturi jets were installed backwards....


Are they removable in a Weber 38 as they are in a 32/36?
This is a brand new carb. I can see fuel when I move the throttle.

Before I start doing too much I'm going to try and call Redline. I call once, but I hadn't been able to start the engine. I'm very sure I have a fuel problem in the carb.

Again thanks for all the help.

Barry
Lawson Hill Farm

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post #111 of 122 Old 05-22-2020, 04:11 AM
John Strenk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHFarm View Post
This is a brand new carb. I can see fuel when I move the throttle.

Before I start doing too much I'm going to try and call Redline. I call once, but I hadn't been able to start the engine. I'm very sure I have a fuel problem in the carb.

Again thanks for all the help.
Wow, so you can see fuel coming out the accelerator jets but it still doesn't run. Yet when you pour gas down the throat of the carb, it runs for a little bit.

Yes I think you need some help from Redline on this problem. There is a chance the carb has a problem all the poking and twiddling wont cure.

You could send them a link to this post if they want to see all the stuff you already tried.
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post #112 of 122 Old 05-22-2020, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
LHFarm
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Yes that might be a big leak - what is it?

So called Redline and left a message. They returned my call and the tech asked me a bunch of questions. Says it has to be a vacuum leak. He says to check the back 2 intake manifold bolts. They are often a problem.

As I'm trying to make sure I've located all the manifold bolts, I crawl under and look up. There is an open hole in the bottom of the intake manifold. AND gas dripping from a weep hole on the heater cover.

I picked up a 3/4" pipe plug when I ran to town, but that didn't fit. What is suppose to be in that hole and why did I never notice it?????

Also, there is gas dripping from the heater cover. It that from pumping all that excess fuel. Should I wait and see if it goes away when I have the engine running?

I'm somewhere between elated and horrified.
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post #113 of 122 Old 05-22-2020, 01:46 PM
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Well, that would explain the fireball when it backfired that one time.

I'm surprised you didn't notice more gas smell or even a small puddle on the floor during this whole process... maybe it wasn't enough to puddle up before evaporation.

My understanding of early model intake and exhaust manifolds has both the intake and exhaust mated together as well, possibly plugging that hole. Looks like you have the intake from the '79 engine, and the exhaust from the '81?

Get that plugged up, and you might just be in business. Keepn' 'em crossed for ya!
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post #114 of 122 Old 05-22-2020, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mister4x4 View Post
Well, that would explain the fireball when it backfired that one time.

I'm surprised you didn't notice more gas smell or even a small puddle on the floor during this whole process... maybe it wasn't enough to puddle up before evaporation.

My understanding of early model intake and exhaust manifolds has both the intake and exhaust mated together as well, possibly plugging that hole. Looks like you have the intake from the '79 engine, and the exhaust from the '81?

Get that plugged up, and you might just be in business. Keepn' 'em crossed for ya!
I'm feeling stupid, but more concerned about how to plug the hole. The motor came with the current intake manifold and a set of headers. I didn't want to use the headers, so purchased a new manifold that was suppose to work with newer style intake.

It almost looks like it was made to take a sensor of some sort. It doesn't appear to be a pipe thread.

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post #115 of 122 Old 05-22-2020, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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I found an oil pan drain plug that will fit. I only hand tightened it, but it DID NOT make a difference.

Now where did I put my head banging hammer....

I guess at this point I take the carb off, remove the base plates and reassemble. Great stress was put on using grease on the gaskets and Red Loc-Tite on the screws - and letting the screws set for a while. I did use grease on the gaskets. I'm not sure if I used Red or Blue though.

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post #116 of 122 Old 05-22-2020, 03:56 PM
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That hole is for the egr valve tube- someone may chime in on thread size.

At least you got spark figured out- was it way out retard, that’s what it sounded like initially.
On the carburetor adjustments are the butterfly’s fully closed? The engine should at a minimum sputter if pumping the gas once from the accelerator pump. Might try increasing/decreasing the idle adjustment.
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post #117 of 122 Old 05-22-2020, 06:25 PM
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This is a bolt type thread (straight, not tapered like a plug)

Field expedient

Shove a coin up in there that will fit flat on the surface that the EGR flange pressed against, diameter-wise a good close fit.

Back that up with 1/4 inch of RTV in the hole

Top it off with that 2 part clay-like epoxy that you kneed together.

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post #118 of 122 Old Yesterday, 09:52 AM
Willyc
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If it’s for an EGR tube with a flare nut would it not be pipe thread. If so this are generally common standard sizes. A water plug with a little bit of lock title ought to do the trick.
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post #119 of 122 Old Yesterday, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
LHFarm
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Thanks. I'll take care of that EGR hole. My son and I are both trying to figure out how we missed it. Once the engine is running, I want to explore all the sensors in the manifold.

I've taken the carb off and have started to reassemble. I'm curing the Lock-Tite a full 24 hours, so won't be able to test before Monday. My original kit came with the wrong throttle bracket. In the process I was sent an extra set of plate adapters and gaskets. So I'm not going to be reusing anything but the carb itself.

Thanks

Barry
Lawson Hill Farm

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post #120 of 122 Old Yesterday, 07:13 PM
John Strenk
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You may have to plug that hole in the heater. JB weld would work nicely.

Although you should take it apart and make sure the o-ring is in good shape.


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