79 CJ7 258 engine swap to 1981 model 258 No start - Page 4 - JeepForum.com
 25Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #46 of 132 Old 04-19-2020, 06:50 AM
bob4703
Registered User
1974 CJ5 
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Easley
Posts: 2,341
You could have a bad ignition switch. It may be sending fire to the coil while starting and once you let off the switch it kills the power. I had this happen to an old Chevy C10 and we hot wired the coil + to the battery to get it back home. A quick voltage check on the coil will eliminate this. I think as others have said it is fuel related but throw this out for consideration.


-----

Paved roads are prime examples of government over spending!
bob4703 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #47 of 132 Old 04-21-2020, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
LHFarm
Registered User
 
LHFarm's Avatar
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Columbus
Posts: 80
OK, had to buy a new battery. The old one was dated 2012 so guess I got my monies worth. I tried to take a video of it "trying" to start with my phone. I'm going to go with this 12 seconds and see if that is enough to determine if it is fuel, timing or ?


Thanks

Barry
Lawson Hill Farm

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
LHFarm is offline  
post #48 of 132 Old 04-21-2020, 03:16 PM
1978CJ7Jeep
Registered User
1978 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4
Either your timing is way off or you aren't getting fuel to the cylinders. You should at least get a "cough" if you poured a little fuel into the carb and cranked the engine. Check to make sure you have spark. You can check this with a timing light. Even if your timing is 180 degrees off you should still register flashing from the timing light.

If it were mine, I'd turn the engine to where the timing mark lines up with the mark on the pulley. Then I'd pull #1 plug and make sure it is top-dead-center (I'd also sniff the plug to see if it smells of any gasoline). Then I'd pull the distributor cap and make sure it is pointing to where the probe for the #1 spark plug wire is on the distributor cap. If you smell gasoline on the plug and have spark, your timing might be 180 degrees off - if that is the case, pull the distributor and turn the distributor shaft 180 degrees and reinstall it. You ought to get the engine started from there and be able to adjust the timing. Pretty much as John said. Remember that the end of the distributor shaft turns the oil pump.

You mentioned the timing chain. They have been known to have been incorrectly installed. If that is the case you'll have to re-do it.
1978CJ7Jeep is offline  
 
post #49 of 132 Old 04-22-2020, 04:58 AM Thread Starter
LHFarm
Registered User
 
LHFarm's Avatar
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Columbus
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1978CJ7Jeep View Post
Either your timing is way off or you aren't getting fuel to the cylinders. You should at least get a "cough" if you poured a little fuel into the carb and cranked the engine. Check to make sure you have spark. You can check this with a timing light. Even if your timing is 180 degrees off you should still register flashing from the timing light.

If it were mine, I'd turn the engine to where the timing mark lines up with the mark on the pulley. Then I'd pull #1 plug and make sure it is top-dead-center (I'd also sniff the plug to see if it smells of any gasoline). Then I'd pull the distributor cap and make sure it is pointing to where the probe for the #1 spark plug wire is on the distributor cap. If you smell gasoline on the plug and have spark, your timing might be 180 degrees off - if that is the case, pull the distributor and turn the distributor shaft 180 degrees and reinstall it. You ought to get the engine started from there and be able to adjust the timing. Pretty much as John said. Remember that the end of the distributor shaft turns the oil pump.

You mentioned the timing chain. They have been known to have been incorrectly installed. If that is the case you'll have to re-do it.
I have done the tests you suggest many times and I was 180 degrees off at one point. I posted the video in hopes someone would be able to confirm that the engine is firing for a few seconds from the shot of ether and that the issue is no fuel is getting to the cylinders after that. I believe the issue is the carburetor and would like to see if I can get a replacement. Before I call the seller, I need to eliminate other possibilities.

Thanks

Barry
Lawson Hill Farm

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
LHFarm is offline  
post #50 of 132 Old 04-22-2020, 07:25 AM
Wabatuckian
Registered User
 
Wabatuckian's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Wabash
Posts: 275
That's the timing.

Loosen the distributor so you can just rotate it by hand. Have someone crank, and, as it's cranking, rotate the distributor counter-clockwise to slowly advance the timing until it catches.

I'm assuming you're getting fuel because, didn't I read your plugs were fouled out?

Also, does the oil smell like gas?

Regards,
Josh
Wabatuckian is offline  
post #51 of 132 Old 04-22-2020, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
LHFarm
Registered User
 
LHFarm's Avatar
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Columbus
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wabatuckian View Post
That's the timing.

Loosen the distributor so you can just rotate it by hand. Have someone crank, and, as it's cranking, rotate the distributor counter-clockwise to slowly advance the timing until it catches.

I'm assuming you're getting fuel because, didn't I read your plugs were fouled out?

Also, does the oil smell like gas?

Regards,
Josh
Plugs are not fouled (brand new) and don't smell of fuel, nor does the oil. Going to pull the carb just to double check that I didn't do something stupid when I put it in place.
Wabatuckian likes this.

Barry
Lawson Hill Farm

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
LHFarm is offline  
post #52 of 132 Old 04-24-2020, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
LHFarm
Registered User
 
LHFarm's Avatar
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Columbus
Posts: 80
OK, just off the phone with the Redline (Weber) tech. Long/short of conversation he thinks I have a major vacuum leak. One suggestion was to spray a soapy solution on the gasket to see it they will swell enough to get it started. He asked if I had used red Lock-Tite on the plate screws and studs. All I could honestly say was that I had tried to completely follow the installation instructions.

I'm just trying to figure out what to do. Should I disassemble the carb down to the manifold? Or does someone have suggestions for founding a vacuum leak on a non running engine????

Thanks,

Barry
Lawson Hill Farm

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
LHFarm is offline  
post #53 of 132 Old 04-24-2020, 03:03 PM
Matt1981CJ7
Web Wheeler
 
Matt1981CJ7's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elbert
Posts: 22,494
In all your pictures, the choke plates are wide open. Do they close when you pump the throttle? They should.

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already.

Matt


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Matt1981CJ7 is offline  
post #54 of 132 Old 04-24-2020, 04:40 PM Thread Starter
LHFarm
Registered User
 
LHFarm's Avatar
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Columbus
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
In all your pictures, the choke plates are wide open. Do they close when you pump the throttle? They should.

Sorry if this has been asked and answered already.

Matt
I'm sure they are closing - but at this point I'll double check - along with checking every nut/bolt item on the intake manifold.

Thanks

Barry
Lawson Hill Farm

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
LHFarm is offline  
post #55 of 132 Old 04-25-2020, 06:15 AM
Matt1981CJ7
Web Wheeler
 
Matt1981CJ7's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elbert
Posts: 22,494
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHFarm View Post
I'm sure they are closing - but at this point I'll double check - along with checking every nut/bolt item on the intake manifold.

Thanks
If this engine hasn't run yet, then all the pictures you've posted should show a closed choke, unless you've deliberately wired it open.

Do you understand how the choke should operate? If not, I'd be happy to explain.

Matt


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Matt1981CJ7 is offline  
post #56 of 132 Old 04-25-2020, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
LHFarm
Registered User
 
LHFarm's Avatar
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Columbus
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt1981CJ7 View Post
If this engine hasn't run yet, then all the pictures you've posted should show a closed choke, unless you've deliberately wired it open.

Do you understand how the choke should operate? If not, I'd be happy to explain.

Matt
Please explain. I've wired 12v to the choke, but nothing else. I'm always willing to learn more.

Thanks.

Barry
Lawson Hill Farm

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
LHFarm is offline  
post #57 of 132 Old 04-25-2020, 07:23 AM
Wabatuckian
Registered User
 
Wabatuckian's Avatar
2004 WJ 
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Wabash
Posts: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHFarm View Post
Please explain. I've wired 12v to the choke, but nothing else. I'm always willing to learn more.

Thanks.
Push the accelerator once. Fuel should squirt into the bore if there's fuel present (accelerator pump) and the top plates should close around 3/4 of the way and stay closed until the engine is warm.

This guy is good; I watch him a lot in my spare time:


Josh
Wabatuckian is offline  
post #58 of 132 Old 04-25-2020, 08:09 AM
Matt1981CJ7
Web Wheeler
 
Matt1981CJ7's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elbert
Posts: 22,494
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHFarm View Post
Please explain. I've wired 12v to the choke, but nothing else. I'm always willing to learn more.

Thanks.
If you wired a constant 12V directly from the battery to the e-choke, then your choke will never close because the thermal spring will always be heated.

The choke should be wired to an oil pressure switch. That way the choke never gets power until the engine is running. When the engine is off, there will no power to the choke, and the choke's thermal spring will cool, allowing it to close when you pump the throttle.

It's pretty simple, a cold engine needs less air and more fuel to start efficiently. That's why the choke plates should be closed at initial start-up. With the choke plates closed, the high idle cam should be engaged. This will allow the engine to start at a higher than normal idle speed, usually around 1500 RPM. As the engine and choke heats up, the choke should gradually open. When it's fully open, applying throttle should disengage the fast idle cam, and the engine RPM should fall to a normal idle of around 650-700 RPM.

Matt


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Matt1981CJ7 is offline  
post #59 of 132 Old 04-25-2020, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
LHFarm
Registered User
 
LHFarm's Avatar
1979 CJ7 
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Columbus
Posts: 80
Choke is wired so only on when ignition is on. I have the relay for oil pressure control, but wanted to get things running before installing.

Barry
Lawson Hill Farm

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
LHFarm is offline  
post #60 of 132 Old 04-25-2020, 09:35 AM
Matt1981CJ7
Web Wheeler
 
Matt1981CJ7's Avatar
1981 CJ7 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Elbert
Posts: 22,494
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHFarm View Post
Choke is wired so only on when ignition is on. I have the relay for oil pressure control, but wanted to get things running before installing.

Then all your pictures should show a closed choke, but they don't, which leads me to believe either it isn't wired correctly, or there is a problem with the choke linkages, or the choke is broke or not adjusted properly.

Matt


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Matt1981CJ7 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JeepForum.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid e-mail address for yourself.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome