1986 CJ7 nightmare starter grind - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
beerbulance
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1986 CJ7 nightmare starter grind

Hello all! Help me out, otherwise this CJ is going to the beach to be sold!!! I've had enough!
I have posted this issue before, and read, and taken the advice, and performed all the recommended fixes.
The effing thing still grinds.
Starter #9 goes in today. So here is what I have done.......
Full engine rebuild on 4.2 I6.........runs beautiful
Brand new bellhousing from Morris 4x4....installed
Brand new flywheel......installed
Dust cover between motor & tranny.....installed, and oriented properly
Alignment dowels between motor and tranny.....in place on engine side
(Motor and trans aligned up properly)
Three different types of starter bolts.......have been tried to no avail
8 starters.....from AZone, Pep boys, Oreillys, and the latest a premium from Napa.
And it still effing grinds.
Am I cursed?
Is the Jeep cursed?
No kidding I will sell the damn thing.....it's getting ridiculous.
Please keep me from selling my beloved Jeep. What the hell am I missing. Everything if flipping new!!!!


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post #2 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 07:32 AM
gmakra
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I see you live in Jacksonville, that's not far from another guy on this forum and he claims that gremlins sneak into his garage at nite and move his bolt holes. But I digress.

Here is what I would do pull your starter and paint your ring gear with Persian Blue ( a metal dye ) then re install the starter start it a few times and pull the stater and look at the contact marks on the Bendix drive.

Once you see the contact pattern on the ring gear and Bendix drive I think it will become obvious what to do.
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post #3 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 08:16 AM
shadoow
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do you still have the stock bell housing or access to one?? Maybe the after market one you bought has fitment issues so the starter isn't lining up correctly.
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post #4 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 08:23 AM Thread Starter
beerbulance
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to shadow

yep, still have the old bellhousing in the back of my other truck. we put them back to back, front to front, and everything seems to be on the money.
I am reading some old threads from other forums, about the reman starters are actually Ford starters, and not Jeep starters, per say. The size of the bendix gear doesn't mesh well with the flywheel ring gear. Doing some more research. Frustrating to say the least..............thinking about drinking....and it ain't even 10am!!!!
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post #5 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
beerbulance
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to gmakra

Thanks for the input, if you see my last reply to shadow......if I paint the ring gear.....is the meshing of the bendix/ring gear what I am looking for? See where it is hitting? A little more info....of what I am looking for please....and of course the solution. I am not a machinist, but the bendix being a general Ford part, not meshing with a Jeep ring gear makes sense to my pea brain. Thanks
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post #6 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 08:37 AM
Bubba Ray
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Never forget that it is 5 o'clock someplace when dealing with a CJ! A friend is having same issue as you with no better results.
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post #7 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 08:41 AM
capt205
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Mine started doing the same thing, out of the blue, or so I thought. After swapping starters and stuff, I saw mention of the bolts. I realized that I had misplaced my bolts during an earlier disassembly, and had replaced them with what I had on hand. 3/8 x 16 full threads.

Turns out, the bolts need to have a shoulder on them, to have them fit tighter in the un-threaded part of the starter and bell housing. There is just enough slop without the shoulder to allow the misalignment. So, I replaced mine with shouldered bolts, and the horrendous grinding is now gone. And this is with a starter that was grinding BAD before the bolt change.

Its a cheap solution, that may help you as well. I used 2" bolts.
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post #8 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 01:26 PM
86cj74.2L
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To the OP and his nightmare.............


With all you've done, all I can think of is whoever rebuilt your engine may not have line-bored the crank properly...........
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post #9 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 02:18 PM
LumpyGrits
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Look for broken/missing teeth on the flywheel ring gear.
You still use the OEM bolts I hope.
LG
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post #10 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
beerbulance
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Hey guys.....
The engine rebuild was an effort between friends. However the crank, and corresponding parts came from a reputable engine parts place here in Jacksonville. The block was worked on by an old timer here, who has been doing it for 40 years. I don't think the line bore is a problem.
This afternoon, finally got my true "starter bolts" for this application. Same ****. It will start....and purr like a kitten.....but nyanga nyanga grrr.
I have another starter sitting on the shelf at Napa.....they are baffled as well.
I was EXTREMELY concientous when I put the starter in......making sure the dust cover was completely and positively in the right spot......with the starter. When bolted down......everything.....starter, dust cover is tight and in place. Still effing grinds.
At this point in time.....I really begin to question the reman starters. The new reman starter on the shelf at Napa......we stuck tose new "Starter bolts" in that one, and they are sloppy as hell in there too. I don't know......being these are reman starters....27 years old......??????? Are the holes just that wallered out???? I know they sandblast them, and put new guts in them....but 9 starters? I have been thru chevy 400 grinding starters, but this is effing ridiculous. I am trying to be respectful of the board.....but I have come up with new curse words in this project. "Twat-waffle" hit me this afternoon. Sent me into a fit of hysteria for a minute or two.
Could the dust cover ......which looks good to me, be warped, or somehow be impeding the seating of the starter?
It looks lined up....in place....and ok to me.
I also am starting to think these reman starters might not be for a jeep. But for a Ford.
I started to entertain the thought of a fancy hi-torque EXTREME water-proof, mud proof, bullet proof starter for $389.00
I can afford it.....but I gotta tell y'all.....if I put the extreme starter in there and it does the same grind..............the ice cream truck dude will get it.
(He seems to come by when I have bloody knuckles, sweating, pissed off, and things are going grind........and that stupid song...)!!!!
Save the ice cream man! Ideas?????????
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post #11 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 07:15 PM
MoC
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If you did not re install the bell house alignment dowels / pins that is often the cause.
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post #12 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 08:20 PM
lucdog
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Just so I'm informed, the starter is grinding as soon as the gear enguages the flywheel , correct.
Have you checked for the correct amount of teeth on the flywheel, and the gear on the starter?
Sorry if these ? Have been answered in a previous post/thread.

This is strange, I've put 5 different starters on 5 different Jeep engines, all remanded from O'Reilly's without a problem.
All 5 have never been apart, except to change intakes or exhaust manifolds.
Bill

1957 WILLYS pickup,
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ.
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post #13 of 46 Old 06-15-2013, 10:05 PM
LumpyGrits
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HAS THE TEETH ON THE FLYWHEEL BEEN INSPECTED FOR ANY MISSING?
BTW, the 2 replacement starters I have used in the last 20+ yrs were rebuilt from NAPA. No issues.....
LG
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post #14 of 46 Old 06-16-2013, 06:48 AM Thread Starter
beerbulance
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Hey everybody! To Moc.....yes alignment pins are in. Saw em with my own eyes when we did the bellhousing.And to LG, yes inspected ring gear yesterday, all the way around.....no missing teeth, or unusual wear. The flywheel maybe has 25 starts on it. Now today, I will be putting on another new starter from Napa. Nice gal cross verified, and even called their reman plant, (or rep)....it is indeed a AMC/Jeep starter. She also verified the number of teeth on the flywheel that I purchased from Napa, and the number of teeth on the starter.....all seem to be correct. (I don't remember what the numbers were, written down in garage......haven't made it that far yet today).
So I'll try new starter today, if same problem occurs, I will shovel the thing over to a shop here, a old time mom n pop, that all they do is starters. Maybe he can figure it out.
Oh, and to the fellow inquiring about the grind sound.....it is a very noisy sound...like a nyamg,nyang,nyang, as the motor is turning, (since the rebuild the motor fires after 2-3 turns), as the motor fires, and the key is released, I get a skkkrunch from the starter as it disengages?
And no, the idle is not extremely high, about 900 rpm. Maybe this new info will shed some light on the night.....mare?
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post #15 of 46 Old 06-16-2013, 07:08 AM
lucdog
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"She verified the number of teeth"


But you didn't count them?

1957 WILLYS pickup,
1973 J 4000,
1978 CJ7 DD.
1979 CJ7 360, TH400/Quadratrac.
1979 J20
1980 CJ5 trail Jeep.
1983 CJ7
1989 YJ the CJ to YJ.
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