1977 CJ5 Wonderful Noise - JeepForum.com
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post #1 of 35 Old 08-16-2016, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
AKINGSTON241
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1977 CJ5 Wonderful Noise

I have a 1977 CJ5, rebuilt and has around 700 miles on it now. Rebuilt 258 by professional engine builder, Dana 30 front, AMC 20 rear both 3.54 gears all stock and the only thing I did was change the seals, including the rear pinion seal. T150 3 speed with Dana 20 transfer not rebuilt. I replaced the pressure plate/clutch disc, throw out bearing, and clutch fork during rebuild. Ever since the rebuild, I have a noise, wasn't there before, and I know it is something I did/didn't do. While driving, I can go through all the gears including reverse easily and everything works well and runs strong. I know it isn't wise to dump the clutch to spin tires, which are 35" tires now (new drive shafts to account for lift, rear with double cv), but I did it in sand (2 wheel drive) which should not be that big of a problem. When I did, in forward, I noticed, because it was hard not to, a very loud grinding/banging noise but couldn't figure out where it came from. My 7 year old said it sounded like something blew up. I pressed the clutch in and didn't seem like anything bad happened, noise stopped. My rear tires did not really spin that much. Then, of course, I had to do it in reverse, because I was wondering, what the heck was that. Well, the same thing happened in reverse. So, I haven't done it again. But I have put another 100 miles on it or so since and there is no problems other than that. I should mention, that while I was taking off on a slight incline, the same thing happened. So it seems like it would be doing in under a quick load maybe? Anyone have any idea of what I should look in to? Or if I left something out that could help determine what it is. Either flywheel/transmission/transfer or rear axle/gearing/preload? Any help is appreciated.

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post #2 of 35 Old 08-16-2016, 05:08 PM
Jeepple
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Preload....

I should wonder if the pinion preload is set properly. Since the crush sleeve is a one time use piece. Did you check the rotational drag on the pinion before disassembly? Don't really know if improper bearing preload would result in the sound you are hearing under load....but improper preload sure doesn't help.
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post #3 of 35 Old 08-16-2016, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
AKINGSTON241
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I didn't really check anything. I didn't really disassemble anything as far as that goes. Removed nut, replaced seal, put nut back. I prob read somewhere I could do that and not worry too much with the crush sleeve. I don't think I got the proper torque back on it though and was thinking it could be the problem. The axle was out when I was trying to torque it down. So if you've ever done that, you know it's about impossible. I am going to check it and pull the cover to see if any gears are messed up. But seems like that would be a constant problem vs just at that particular time. But I dunno. By far a mechanic
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post #4 of 35 Old 08-16-2016, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
AKINGSTON241
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It's is the 3.54 trak loc if that makes a difference. I used regular Orielly gear lube.
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post #5 of 35 Old 08-17-2016, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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Any other advice on what's the problem. I can Troubleshoot it. But if anyone else has experienced this, might point me in the right direction and save me time and money....
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post #6 of 35 Old 08-17-2016, 10:17 AM
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EDIT: Track loc needs friction modifier added if the oil you used doesn't already have it. Orielly's house brand doesn't have it. Could be the trac lock is slipping under load.

Maybe the sand launch broke/damaged the centering yoke in the double cardan rear drive shaft. DS would need to be pulled out to verify. You could check your rear pinion for slop at that time, but I don't think that's the culprit. Maybe though, stranger things have happened.

Or engine torquing over and exhaust or driveshaft rubbing skid plate or something like this? If you had slop in your pinion bearing preload it would be howling all the time and the sound would change as you apply throttle/let off.

You need to make a tool similar to whats in the pic to aid in torquing the pinion nut to spec. Longer is better.
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post #7 of 35 Old 08-17-2016, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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I appreciate the response. I made that tool when I was fooling with it. But the axel was out of the jeep by itself. I don't think I reached the specified torque but can't remember. I checked the driveshaft its solid and there isn't any play whatsoever in the driveshaft/pinion. I thought about the oil not being right. Probably drain it, check make sure I didn't break anything inside the differential. I was thinking it might have been something to do with the transfer or clutch disc or something besides the axel. Becasue it isn't a constant thing. Only under the load. I will be checking the torque on the nut, making sure nothing is moving/twisting that's not suppose to be hitting underneath. And add the right fluids. Yet it again. It could be something simple. I appreciate the advice.
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post #8 of 35 Old 08-17-2016, 11:11 AM
LumpyGrits
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Cj

Are you still run'n the 2-piece OEM axles?
If yes-You spun a hub. Real easy to do with 35" tires......
LG
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post #9 of 35 Old 08-17-2016, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
AKINGSTON241
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Yes I am. Didn't think that would be the issue being I did this on a sand beach. One time. And it happened right away. But never know. I'll check that too. I have put over a hundred miles on it with no problem since. I know that doesn't mean much. I'll check it out also. There is a list of things it could be.
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post #10 of 35 Old 08-17-2016, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry this is so long.

Well. I tried loading a video but it didn't work. I took the rear differential cover off. While it was off, this is what I noticed. All teeth on gears look good. No metal in gear oil. No play in the drive shaft or pinion. So. I spun the passenger rear tire by hand. While spinning the passenger tire slowly, the driver side tire spun in the same direction. Forward or reverse. But, if I spun it quickly, the driver side tire would stop spinning and all the gears in the differential would continue to spin. Now. I moved to the driver side rear tire. I spin it slow or fast doesn't matter, the passenger side tire will spin in the same direction at the same speed. So I put it all back together refilled with gear lube and friction additive. Took it for a ride. Drove around 10 miles. Got back home. Tried to spin the tires in my yard. Same loud grinding noise. Then, I let off the clutch and gave it gas, it was like it caught and spun the rear tires like crazy with no noise. Then did it again by letting off the clutch slowly. Spun the tires again perfect. Dumped the clutch (15-1800 RPM), loud grinding noise but then it sounded like it catches and the tires begin to spin. So. Then I went through the ditch and on to my driveway. All 2wd. Front tire went up no problem. Rear tire was about halfway up the culvert. Gave it some gas, let off the clutch, driver side rear is where I think the noise is coming from now. It began to slip/grind but then caught, and climbed right up onto the driveway. So..... Loose axel nut? Bad axel? Stripped?
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post #11 of 35 Old 08-18-2016, 11:20 AM
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You just proved it, it isn't striped axle splines because when you spin either wheel slow/fast you get action in the diff, or other wheel. Stripped splines would result in a wheel that spins but nothing happens inside the diff or to the opposite wheel.

In addition you've proved it's a slipping trac-loc by what you observed when turning the right wheel slow vs fast. The clutch pack is slipping and diff is going open under load on the right wheel.

I'm sticking with what I said about the trac-loc. Seems to me you saw an improvement with the friction modifier. Keep running it and you're likely to see further improvements as the modifier makes it's way further into the clutches.

You possibly need to do a clutch replacement in the trac-loc to fix it completely, it may simply be worn out. There's a good youtube video or 2 on it already. Once you've done it once, it's pretty easy really. Not expensive either. Last I did it I got the kit for $80 from ebay.

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post #12 of 35 Old 08-18-2016, 01:46 PM
LumpyGrits
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Cj

Stop driving on it till fixed!
Pull the diff cover and inspect the innards.
'Tip' looks to have the correct ans here.
LG

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post #13 of 35 Old 08-18-2016, 01:48 PM
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I think he stripped a 2 piece axle/hub. By the way, it's not unusual for a TraK Lok to slip. All limited slips do under certain conditions and a Trak Lok is certainly no exception.
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post #14 of 35 Old 08-18-2016, 02:47 PM
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I tend to agree with 80CJ. Those 35" tires can hold a lot more torque than the two-piece axle-hub. Even though the axle-hub is mated with taper, splines, AND a square key. My son and I resurrected an '82 this summer and found the left axle spun inside the hub. The splines were all gone and the square key was nothing more than a smear around the taper.

Permanent cure: Single-piece axles from Moser Engineering and a new Tom Woods drive shaft. The rear shaft was bent.

Oh yeah: Stop dumping the clutch! All that sudden engine power and torque applied to the drive line breaks all sorts of stuff!
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post #15 of 35 Old 08-18-2016, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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I'll give it a few more miles with the new additive and in the meantime check out the videos on trac-loc. I'll have time this weekend to take a better look at it. Seems like the only thing changed among the list of things from when it wasn't doing until now is me running it without friction additive. Won't hurt to look at the hubs either just for peace of mind before putting those miles on it I'll let you know if/when I figure out the exact culprit.
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