1974 CJ5 AMC 304 - cold start stalling - Page 5 - JeepForum.com
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post #61 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 03:15 PM
jammer1
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1979 CJ7 
 
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The red lever has a ball weight that pulls the came down. I haven't seen one in years, I might have one in my shop that if I can get a look at I can tell you how it works. I never liked them and always converted to the manual choke. In fact I just put the avenger offroad on the jeep this winter and didn't like the electric choke. I had the parts to convert it to manual. I'll try to get to the shop tomorrow to get a better look (a refresher to remember) and if I have it, some pictures of the back side. I do remember it should rotate freely with the throttle open and if it goes too far one way the weight isn't enough to let it fall back. Can't find a good pic on holleys website.

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post #62 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
sabbyATL
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Ok, so I either fixed it or I broke it...

That red/black thing didn't seem to have a real function.

Perhaps it was part of the old manual choke?

It did seem to act as a stop and a spacer between the choke spring and the linkage arm. But it wasn't connected to anything and it's movement was controlled by the linkage arm.

Anyway, I took the whole choke off (I think it was the choke...it was the part between the spring and the linkage).

And while I was checking out what it was and how it moved I broke it. Not completely but I broke off the black part. Which was the part that way in the way of the linkage arm, which in turn closes the plate.

So, not understanding the function of that red/black now-broken piece and thinking it was a vestigial part that didn't matter I put the choke and spring cap back on.

Now the choke plate closes completely. And when I start the engine the plate opens fully within 3 minutes (it's a warm day and I had drove it earlier in the day).

So, I'm not sure if it's fixed (seems like it is) or I broke something that will show it's ugly head when I'm driving later, killing us all in a horrible tragic accident....
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post #63 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer1 View Post
The red lever has a ball weight that pulls the came down. I haven't seen one in years, I might have one in my shop that if I can get a look at I can tell you how it works. I never liked them and always converted to the manual choke. In fact I just put the avenger offroad on the jeep this winter and didn't like the electric choke. I had the parts to convert it to manual. I'll try to get to the shop tomorrow to get a better look (a refresher to remember) and if I have it, some pictures of the back side. I do remember it should rotate freely with the throttle open and if it goes too far one way the weight isn't enough to let it fall back. Can't find a good pic on holleys website.
Uh oh.
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post #64 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
sabbyATL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer1 View Post
The red lever has a ball weight that pulls the came down. I haven't seen one in years, I might have one in my shop that if I can get a look at I can tell you how it works. I never liked them and always converted to the manual choke. In fact I just put the avenger offroad on the jeep this winter and didn't like the electric choke. I had the parts to convert it to manual. I'll try to get to the shop tomorrow to get a better look (a refresher to remember) and if I have it, some pictures of the back side. I do remember it should rotate freely with the throttle open and if it goes too far one way the weight isn't enough to let it fall back. Can't find a good pic on holleys website.
Ok, so I can tell you this one didn't have ball weight it. The end was wrapped in wire and then black electrical tape. So, my guess is that it was already kind of broken and someone tried to do a homemade fix.

Since I broke the end off completely do I need to replace that whole piece?

Fyi, it broke real easily. The red plastic was super brittle and it didn't take much.

My husband is driving it right now, taking our son to the park. Assuming he comes home alive I'll ask him how it drove.
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post #65 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, so my husband called to tell me it's running differently.

It's idling at higher RPMs.

Before when driving in 2nd and letting off the gas, the RPMs would immediately start slowing, which in turn braked the Jeep. And the exhaust would pop a lot, which was kind cool.

He said it's not doing that nearly as much now. That it's greatly subsided. His words.

Then, after dropping the boys off at the park he couldn't start the Jeep. It would turn but not catch.

I told him to give the gas pedal a half pump and try again. And it started.
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post #66 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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Here it is:http://www.carburetion.com/sitesearc...%20Carburetors

Fast idle cam.

Mine didn't quite look like that.

And it's broken now...

But it was in the way of the choke plate closing so I'm really confused about why if it's for controlling idle.

I guess I need to replace it...
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post #67 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 04:13 PM
jammer1
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Without the weight you probably have the fast idle screw hitting the cam (the red piece). The red cam relied on the weight to constantly move the cam to the lowest step (where the fast idle screw would hit). When the choke spring fully heated up, it rotated the red arm to the point that the fast idle screw would not be contacting the cam (red arm). Now if the cam rotates when he has his foot on the gas, the fast idle screw hit's the cam (engine is warm so idle speed is higher than when cold, when screw is suppose to be hitting it). Now when he starts it (cold), the choke will work, but the fast idle won't. He can sit there for a minute with his foot on the gas (till jeep warms up enough to not konk out). I would seriously get a manual choke http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-45-225/overview/. It's easy to install, just be careful on the electric choke there is a port on the carb that connects to the electric choke body that is manifold vacuum (has a donut cork washer). Manual fit has a piece that fits over it. Other owner messed you up with a half a** fit.
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post #68 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 04:16 PM
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H17-56 is the part if you want to go back to original. It probably jammed because of the screw up the previous owner did. Be careful of the donut washer otherwise you will get a vacuum leak.
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post #69 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer1 View Post
Without the weight you probably have the fast idle screw hitting the cam (the red piece). The red cam relied on the weight to constantly move the cam to the lowest step (where the fast idle screw would hit). When the choke spring fully heated up, it rotated the red arm to the point that the fast idle screw would not be contacting the cam (red arm). Now if the cam rotates when he has his foot on the gas, the fast idle screw hit's the cam (engine is warm so idle speed is higher than when cold, when screw is suppose to be hitting it). Now when he starts it (cold), the choke will work, but the fast idle won't. He can sit there for a minute with his foot on the gas (till jeep warms up enough to not konk out). I would seriously get a manual choke http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-45-225/overview/. It's easy to install, just be careful on the electric choke there is a port on the carb that connects to the electric choke body that is manifold vacuum (has a donut cork washer). Manual fit has a piece that fits over it. Other owner messed you up with a half a** fit.
So, does the manual choke feed into the dash? Or am I seriously not understanding something?

For now is it fine to run the Jeep as-is with a broken fast idle cam?

I haven't seen a cork washer.

I took the choke completely of the carb. Referring to the photo below, that all looks familiar except for the parts I circled. Are those square washers the cork washers (though they're not donut shaped)?
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post #70 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 05:14 PM
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Look at you're picture. You see the three towers where the three long mounting bolts go through? Now look between two of the towers (at the end of the red cam, not the end with the weight). See that tower? The small hole in he center matches up to the carbs body. The gasket may be stuck to the tower or to the body. The gasket is about 1/4" diameter. Mine was so old and dried that it fell apart trying to get it off. I just made another from gasket material. It won't hurt to run the jeep, just when you take you're foot off the gas she will try to stall (since the fast idle isn't working). Good find on the pic. I couldn't find one to refresh my memory!

Edit: The gaskets in the pic have the correct inside hole. The stock ones are circular instead of square.
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post #71 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 05:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer1 View Post
Look at you're picture. You see the three towers where the three long mounting bolts go through? Now look between two of the towers (at the end of the red cam, not the end with the weight). See that tower? The small hole in he center matches up to the carbs body. The gasket may be stuck to the tower or to the body. The gasket is about 1/4" diameter. Mine was so old and dried that it fell apart trying to get it off. I just made another from gasket material. It won't hurt to run the jeep, just when you take you're foot off the gas she will try to stall (since the fast idle isn't working). Good find on the pic. I couldn't find one to refresh my memory!

Edit: The gaskets in the pic have the correct inside hole. The stock ones are circular instead of square.
So inside that tower with the small hole the cork washer? What's that for, anyway?

What's funny is my husband said it wasn't trying to stall all. It was idling faster than it was before.

I'll go to AutoZone or wherever tomorrow and get a conversion kit for the choke.

Does this mean I have to punch a hole in the dash? What's the easiest way to do that?

Thanks for all of your help, by the way! It's fun learning how this works but I couldn't do it without this forum.
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post #72 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 06:13 PM
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Without the weight (in the cam), the cam is now in the fast idle position. The fast idle screw is hitting it and opening up the throttle. If he were to back out the screw it wouldn't contact the cam. When he get's home, pull the air cleaner off, open the throttle and push the cam toward the fast idle screw. Close the throttle, then go to the drivers side and look at the idle screw. you should see that it's not contacting the throttle lever. For a manual choke you run a cable from below you're dash to the manual choke lever. On the bottom of the dash you mount (two screws) a bracket (approx. 1" x 1") that the cable mounts to. To start the engine you step on gas, pull cable all the way out (approx 2.5") then push in about 3/8". Hit gas one more time and turn key. You will have to play around with how far the cable needs to be out or in. I don't know you're age, but if you're in you're 40's or older (or you're father's around) they can help since they were used more back then. If you like the electric choke, get the red fast idle arm and install it and you should be ready to go. If you go manual, get the holley. The kits they sell to replace the black cap with another black cap don't work nearly as well as the holleys original kit.
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post #73 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 06:27 PM
19jeep85
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Time for a new carb maybe?

“ The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left .”
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post #74 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 06:52 PM
jammer1
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No, If the carbs running good when warm, holleys are good for just buying the part that's bad. For $60.00 you can buy the whole complete electric choke, for $30.00 you can buy the whole manual choke (plus the hand cable). Much cheaper than the whole carb.

Edit: In this picture you will see the donut gaskets.http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-45-223/overview/
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post #75 of 89 Old 05-04-2014, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
sabbyATL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer1 View Post
Without the weight (in the cam), the cam is now in the fast idle position. The fast idle screw is hitting it and opening up the throttle. If he were to back out the screw it wouldn't contact the cam. When he get's home, pull the air cleaner off, open the throttle and push the cam toward the fast idle screw. Close the throttle, then go to the drivers side and look at the idle screw. you should see that it's not contacting the throttle lever. For a manual choke you run a cable from below you're dash to the manual choke lever. On the bottom of the dash you mount (two screws) a bracket (approx. 1" x 1") that the cable mounts to. To start the engine you step on gas, pull cable all the way out (approx 2.5") then push in about 3/8". Hit gas one more time and turn key. You will have to play around with how far the cable needs to be out or in. I don't know you're age, but if you're in you're 40's or older (or you're father's around) they can help since they were used more back then. If you like the electric choke, get the red fast idle arm and install it and you should be ready to go. If you go manual, get the holley. The kits they sell to replace the black cap with another black cap don't work nearly as well as the holleys original kit.

Ok, I'll test this tomorrow.

What does it mean that I can flip the cam back and forth like a light switch? What I mean is that it might be In the "forward" position, where it's down and, I think, away from the fast idle screw. Then, with my finger I can flip it to the "back" position where it's against screw. But there doesn't seem to be positions between forward and back, like the way a light switch works.

I did see the black cap conversion kits but, like you said, the official Holley kit looks like the best quality.

Those kits don't come with the cable and knob, do they? That's probably cheap, though.

Oh, and I'm 40. I don't think I've driven a car with a manual choke before but the 80s and early 90s I used to drive around my Dad's hunting camp on 3-wheelers that had manual chokes. And with this whole thing I feel like I have an understanding of how they work.

I'll update tomorrow or Tuesday.

Thanks, again!
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